Please don't sully my name thinking I'm involved in any of Octanes actions when they are his alone to do and defend.

@DeMoz Your name hasn't been mentioned in my post, in this thread and I'm sure it won't be unless you want it to be. I don't understand where you thought that but take comfort that's not the case. We will see if he wins both games to prove my earlier quote wrong maybe.

Coming back to Octane and why people even brought him up here is because he excessivly switched accounts which is pretty outrageous and needs a pretty criminal mindset

It's been explained a few times now with quotes above ^ , I'm not expecting you to agree but to atleast understand why. If you still want to ignore these quotes and still ask why it's so unfair and be a sexy cowboy lawyer go ahead. (Styx would approve of this)

Plat has arguably done worse on the 3v3 Ladder as he kept creating new ladder runs with different account without finishing other runs, doing something he knows happens - tanking other players ratings because he wouldn't finish a run

I've done 8 ladder runs in total. From these 8 ladder runs, About 3-4ish were completed *Above 10 games* , A few got ended on my own naivity of being booted. One or two may have ended due to my team-mates getting booted from various life reasons. Overall, I wasn't that bad (even I'm surprised it wasn't as bad I thought it was).. I can show all 8 3v3 ladder runs if you wish for clarification. Though one thing I can defintely confirm, I didn't used alts in different ladder runs at the same time or with games being counted. (I think anyways unless I missed something).

Super, i think there is one point that we aren't on the same paige. I was only talking about the time after i made the thread and the discussion in that regard started. Not about unexpired games before that time. I think nobody in here blames him for past actions prior that date.

I'm not agreeing with what octane did, nor am I saying he should keep doing this.

My issue with the statement

A. You automaticly assume he meant to cause harm.

B. He has said he will stop and has apologized for doing this.

C. You act like he should be the one hung out to dry.

As far as the 3v3 runs I brought up, I was only referring to the alt runs you did. You know very well, not finishing these runs hurt the ratings of other players. I am not mad, I am pointing out a double standard, how we're willing to attack one player, but I'd another player does something it can be deducted to just being naive.

@Edge, but you automatically assume he even knew of your thread? Or am I missing something.

I think we can shorten this discussion:

We had a long period of time, where a bunch of players used Alts on ladders. Once you play your alt-accounts parallel or within a time period below 5 month, you wll always have an advantage as you drag down the rating of your opponents (itentionally or not). We all agree that these kind of praxis is at least from a moral point of view reprobate. Octane is not the first, hopefully he will be the last known example. Taking out one person out of a bunch of players who did this, is not the solution of our problems. Such witch-hunts won't get us anywhere.

Some players out of the community worked out rules to solve this issue, most of us agree on them. Some say, these rules were there all the time, but we all agree that they weren't enforced. And now it is time to fix the date, when we enforce these rules.

Any suggestions?

My 3 suggestions (choose one):
1st October 2017
15th October 2017
1st November 2017

Personally I prefer the earlist possible date.

I think he either knew it or if he didn't knew about it, that u or anyone else from his clans who knew about it have a responsibility to explain the problem to him to prevent him from such a situation.

As far as the 3v3 runs I brought up, I was only referring to the alt runs you did. You know very well, not finishing these runs hurt the ratings of other players. I am not mad, I am pointing out a double standard, how we're willing to attack one player, but I'd another player does something it can be deducted to just being naive.

Just one problem.. I completed my last two alt runs.. (I know right, What a shocker..) So I don't think you are correct at all.

The idea that is the clans responsibility to educate the members to do something that is commonplace and that fizzer has shown no interest in punishing is absurd to me. Stop acting like your post is when something in the Warlight community clicked and the rules started taking effect. If it did this forum wouldn't need to exist.

Ah, sorry plat. I assumed you left the ladder at that point.

Maybe I was thinking of another run.

I apologize.

@Buns: Lynx is filthy rich, so we may as well spend our money on the best attorneys money can buy ;)

***

In my (legal) opinion, the case is as simple as this:

This matter was brought to our attention. As we clan we decided that we didn't like it and we asked Octane to stop. He agreed, and has publicly posted his intentions to stop. For us, the matter ends there.

***

Even Timinator and Master of the Dead have done this (playing games on their old 3v3 ladder team while having a new team). They finished 5 games on their new account before they finished their last game on their old account -

Old account: https://www.warlight.net/LadderTeam?LadderTeamID=14354
New account: https://www.warlight.net/LadderGames?ID=4&LadderTeamID=18209

Edited 9/27/2017 09:36:56

It's called Ethics, Just because something doesn't get punished in a broken system doesn't mean you let all your members take advantage.

Whether this is "ethical" or not is a totally irrelevant matter. I'm not into policing our members over having played with alts on the ladder. Every person has a differing opinion on this.

@Platinum:
And you have the right to complain? You?! Should I throw dirt at you, as you used your alts on the ladders without letting your games expire?

@all:
Once again, set a date when enforcement of the rules start and I will rage with you. Before this, it is simply a cheap witch-hunt!

what is this dicustion even about..... there is coming new rules and enforcment(hopefully), and that's that. everyone knows the ladders have been a mess

+1 Njord
We may not all agree that this should've been made a big deal in public, but I think we're all reasonable enough that this was the wrong spot.

This thread was under 90 posts last time I checked. I naively hope for some constructive disscussion on ladder rules...

Nope. Just throwing shit at individual people, as I expected.

You guys suck so much I can't find right words for you. It's the most important thread I've seen in a while and still you can't keep it safe from flamewars. YOu have absolutely no respect for Beren's work.

I saw it coming from miles away when linberson posted his senseless shit... I asked to continue this in another thread. Nope.

---

FYI: Octane was informed that alt switching like that isn't really OK and said he'll stop. Cowboy made a post about it 4 days ago in this very thread. As for his 3v3 run, he was looking for teammates, couldn't find them, so he started an alt run. When Cowboy and DemoZ got more time to play, he switched because it's more fun to play with real teammates.

That's it. 4 sentences of explanation. Half of which were already in this thread. Why are there 30+ new posts about it?

anyone got anything to add on the new ladder rules?

Yes. You won't successfully fight stallers with warning + bans. A good player will do a ladder run, simultaneously stall some games at the end, take the trophy and not play this boring ladder again. What will a warning accomplish?

I partly agree with knyte, if you want to fight stalling, do it with shorter turns + banked boot times.

Or even better - ignore stalling. Focus on ladder runs instead. Stalling is a consequence of runs. And honestly, who cares that 1 in 20 people stall their way to the top when 10 out of 20 just do an easy run, not play anyone with over 2000 rating and then take #1 with a rating of 2250 or so. Focusing on that low % of stallers when you have runs a common practice is funny in my eyes.

The best solutions imo:
1. Change Bayeselo to something else (requires coding but solves the issue)
2. To get ranked you need 20 finished games, including at least 1 loss (So runs won't inflate the ratings THAT much. Still requires coding but probably a lot less)
3. Do nothing. Still better than kidding ourselves that giving a warn to a staller once per month solves anything.

there is not gonna be any code changes now..... still you coud just take the trophy away

I agree that effectively preventing runs will destroy the incentive of stalling on most ladders. On the seasonal it won't be possible to fight stalling that way cause the concept is very different tough. If there can be found a way to solve the problem on seasonal, it can be adapted to the other ladders as well.

In my eyes, a formula which takes income, armies and turn speed in account has to be found as a guideline. But there will always have to be a mod who checks the individual cases.