@centerpoint editor

Have you tried running it? Apart from the scary white-text-on-black-background console window, it's pretty easy to use. Just copy the exe file to the same folder as your SVG file and run it.

Note that the map has to uploaded in development mode already, and that the territory ids need to be set. (I've made a tool for that, too: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10983006/tmp/warlight_territories.exe, but it only works with Inkscape-made maps.)

Woohoo! *takes the cookie* OM NOM NOM!
Keep up the good work, Moros.

Okay, I need advise on the bonuses. There are two possibilities:
1. I make every province a bonus. In that case we'll have 12+10+3=25 bonuses, but at 1100 territories it'll make an average of 1100/25=44 territories per bonus, what I consider very large.

2. I make the COROP-areas, *arrondissementen* and cantons a bonus too, that'll make 43+40+12=95 bonuses, or 1100/95=11,5 territories per bonus. That's still a bit large, but smaller than first. But, in that case, because I want the countries, and provinces a bonus too, and I'm also grouping Flanders and Walloon together, and I'm thinking of dividing the Netherlands in two as well, than we have 4 layers of bonuses.

To give a clear idea, here are the [provinces of the Netherlands](http://lajhsslab.com/europe/netherlands/images/nl_map_provinces.gif) and [Belgium](http://www.belgium-mapped-out.com/image-files/belgiumprovinces.png), and the [districts of Luxembourg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Luxemburg_districts.svg/220px-Luxemburg_districts.svg.png)

And here are the [COROP-areas of the Netherlands](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Coropgebieden_plain.png), [the arrondissementen of Belgium](http://download.tuxx.nl/bouwvakantie_belgie_2010/belgie.jpg), and [the cantons of Luxembourg](http://www.luxembourg.public.lu/pictures/photos/cartes/politique.jpg).

Tell me what you'd prefer please.

The second idea sounds like the best idea. So the four layers of bonuses are:

1. The Corop Areas (NL), arrondissements (B), and cantons (L).
2. The provinces (NL & B), and districts (L).
3. The regions of the Netherlands and Belgium (and Luxembourg).
4. The three countries.

If you split up the Netherlands, I wouldn't cut it in half, but in four pieces, the way NMI did in his small map.

But if I cut it into four pieces, it'll give way more armies for 400 territories than Belgium, which I split up in Flanders and Walloon. I think I'm splitting it up in Randstad (Noord-Holland, Zuid-Holland, Utrecht and Flevoland, together 162 territories) and the rest (258), that's pretty much equally divided, and realistic. But how should I name the Netherlands outside the Randstad? I was thinking of *Achterland*, but maybe that's a bit degenerating.

Oh, and I'm not splitting up Luxembourg, it's too small to be balanced if given even more armies.

Naturally. That's why I said regions of Netherlands and Belgium, and Luxembourg (by which I meant Luxembourg as a whole.)

I am not sure if the division I proposed is so imbalanced. As long as the value is not too high, it needn't be imbalanced.
I don't think there's a name for the non-Randstad Netherlands, and *Achterland* is indeed a bad idea. Sounds too much like *achterlijk*. ;)
Also, the Randstad does not really include all the parts of the provinces you mentioned.
I'd say the Randstad stops beyond Lelystad, Alkmaar, and Zeist. Urk, for example, is definitely not a Randstad city.

See, you can't really evade a little imbalance here and there. Look at The Netherlands Map alone, even though I've substantially weakened Flevoland, it's still probably the most favourable starting location for a one-territory start with a normal income, Dronten more specifically. Other good locations are Medemblik and Haarlemmerliede & Spaarwoude.

Anyhow, balance is a utopia when real maps are concerned. But whatever you decide, keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to the map.

Do you know any good divisions?

Well, it's a hard nut to crack, but let me see. Let's assume that the Regions will be collections of equal amounts of provinces. That means you can divide 12 provinces by 2, 3, 4, or 6.

That means the first possibility is dividing our country into two groups of six provinces.
Because Belgium has been divided north-west, it makes sense to divide the Netherlands west-east:

1. Noord-Holland, Zuid-Holland, Utrecht, Flevoland, Friesland, Zeeland.
2. Drenthe, Overijssel, Gelderland, Limburg, Noord-Brabant, Groningen.

The names would then of course be West- and Oost-Nederland.

Then three groups of four. I couldn't find a mathematically sound division, but here's the best I could do:

1. Noord-Holland, Utrecht, Flevoland, Friesland.
2. Zuid-Holland, Zeeland, Noord-Brabant, Limburg.
3. Friesland, Groningen, Drenthe, Gelderland.
The second bonus would have about 70 more territories than the rest. The names might be IJsselmeer, Beneden de Rivieren, and Het Noordoosten (don't know any better name.)

Next, four trios. Numberwise the division NMI did and I proposed is a disaster. In fact, because the northeast bonuses are worth pennies, making four equal trios impossible, so I solved that this way:

1. Noord-Holland, Zuid-Holland.
2. Flevoland, Gelderland, Utrecht.
3. Zeeland, Noord-Brabant, Limburg.
4. Friesland, Groningen, Drenthe, Overijssel.

Then the names will be Holland, Midden-Nederland, Zuid-Nederland, and Noord-Nederland.

I also tried to make six duos, but I appreciate that if you think four trios already cause an imbalance, it's silly to make six twosomes, plus I couldn't make the numbers fit anymore without making combinations like Gelderland-Limburg, which just looks funny...

Well, I have to split the Netherlands in two, because I've split up Belgium in two too. And I want the border to be somewhat realistic, because the Belgian division is the two language zones.

|> Well, I have to split the Netherlands in two, because I've split up Belgium in two too. And I want the border to be somewhat realistic, because the Belgian division is the two language zones.

Meh, that's a pretty silly reason if you ask me; you're not splitting Luxemburg in two, so why split the Netherlands in two? Size-wise, I think Luxemburg in one piece, and Belgium in two, pretty much suggests (by extrapolation based on size) chopping up the Netherlands in three parts. Now, I propose to *not* necessarily go for a 4-4-4 division (see comments above, it's problematic).

How about Noord-Holland, Zuid-Holland and Utrecht ("Randstad"), Zeeland, Noord-Brabant and Limburg (maybe "Onder de rivieren"?) and all the rest together (<flamebait>"Platteland" anyone?</flamebait> ;) ). I don't have your exact numbers of territories at hand, but I expect that to be relatively balanced, right? If you could check your numbers, maybe the balance would benefit from moving Gelderland to the second group (which would then need another name of course).

Note, this is not an attempt to make the most balanced division possible; it's an attempt to make a relatively balanced division based on generally-known regions. Should balance be your primary concern, let me know; if you have a list of the number of territories per province (it's a hard condition for the "third level bonuses" to be based on provinces; all second level bonuses are entirely within one third level bonus, right?) I'll translate it into an optimization problem and let my computer simply calculate the most balanced division.

I mean, although the Netherlands cover more land, Belgium has more communes. Belgium has 589, the Netherlands only 421. So, because I can't split Belgium in three, the Netherlands should be cut in two too.
Here's a list of the communes, just type ctrl+f and than any province name, you get how many communes/municipalities there are.

Moros,

My bad, I made the, subconscious, assumption (Google "assumptions are" ;) ) the number of communes (or municipalities or whatever the correct term is) in Belgium would be lower than in the Netherlands. I guess they never did any gemeentelijke herindelingen there?

Anyway, about that list of communes, did you intend to include a link or something; I don't see anything...

Please allow me a few days to answer; my Internet connection is broken so I can only connect intermittently, when I'm not at home.

Moros take a look at the "Big New York" map, personally I think that's the most balanced to currently exist. It's also the main one I host all my 24 player games on. Try and aim for play-ability more than on geographical accuracy when it comes to bonuses and you'll have one hell of a map.

Lol, I forgot to include the link :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_municipalities_of_the_Netherlands

@typhoon

If all I was going for was balance and play-ability, I'd leave all country, region, province and other divisions behind me and just group every 10 territories into a bonus. Or even further, I'd leave behind the commune borders, and just divide the whole Benelux into 3199 perfect squares, and make those with 3×3 territory square bonuses, all worth the 5 armies per turn. If I was going for balance only, I would simply make a copy of matma's battlefield, which is maybe even more balanced than NY big.

I want two things, first I want my map to be geologically and politically accurate, and after that the balance. It'd be boring to group every 10 territories and make them a bonus. I want to work around the weird provinces, the illogical borders and connections and bridges over rivers that don't seem to make any sense. I bet I can even make a map of a fictional country with 100 municipalities, grouped in 1 province with 99 municipalities, and the other one with only 1 of them. In that case, I'd try to find further divisions for that large province, and that's exactly what I'm doing now with the Benelux map. I'm looking for ways to divide provinces with a lot of territories, such as Zuid-Holland and Luik. And I'm adding ports and airports to keep the game interesting after 10 times of playing. I'm making Flevoland worth almost nothing to avoid all people starting there, maybe by also making the bonuses around Flevoland relatively low.

The map that's both balanced and realistic doesn't exist, but I try to do both, instead of simply going to one side of the spectrum, and doing nothing with the rest. I hope I made my point and reasons understandable for you.

Sorry if you took my comment the wrong way Moros. I am not saying you should modify any of the crazy and senseless borders that you have put massive time and effort into. I am simply saying there's a lot of maps out there that are very accurate but hard to follow/play and have very unbalanced bonuses. I am not suggesting you making it "Perfectly Balanced" either. It will take a lot of testing in order for you to reach that point. Personally I am currently attempting to make a map of my own (USSR small, then USSR big afterwards) and damn, is it not an easy task putting those two together.

What I meant was you should go with the: COROP-areas of the Netherlands, the arrondissementen of Belgium, and the cantons of Luxembourg. For bonuses instead of using just the provinces.

Sorry I did not fully explain my post and if it came out rude.

Moros, thanks for the info, when I get home I'll see what I can whip up.

On a semi-related note, how about determining the value of bonuses by population size? ;)

@Typhoon

Sorry that I overreacted, I thought you wanted me to put every 10 or 5 territories in a bonus, and I would never do that.
And I'm now already making it with the divisions you mentioned, but rather with the provinces and districts too, but that as one extra layer. That'd be a super-bonus, then the regions a super-super-bonus, and the countries a super-super-super bonus :)

@RvW
I'm afraid I can't do that, because if I do that, everyone will start in the Brussels Capital Region, 19 municipalities with 1.142.026 residents :) Or in Amsterdam, a single commune with 783.364 of them :) And nobody in Schiermonnikoog, 937 residents!

Heh, if everything was worth 5/10 that'd be one boring map :P.

Okay, so you want to divide the Netherlands into two.

Then I think my west-east proposal is pretty good: it's balanced, it has no degrading names, ;) , and in fact it is the border between the Western and Frisian dialects and the Eastern and Southern dialects.
It's also, roughly, the border between hasty zeal (West) and trusty dedication (East).