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trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/27/2016 16:12:17

Mike
Level 59
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Lol Timi Ok. But I still dont get it sorry. Why does he need to do a transfer only ? Why cant he just sit and blocade whatever is left ? Or was his point to use exactly 7 armies in the blocade maybe ?? Yeah I guess that makes sense now. He "freezes" the armies in the transfer only, gets anything remaining back (in that game there was nothing left but could have depending on opponent move), and blocade the 7. Is that the point ? If it is it is well bad explained lol. If not, i give up ^.

Also isnt it weird that the armies are frozen in the failed transfer only ? Shouldnt the transfer back to SA work regardless with whatever armies left ? I guess a fail transfer only has this specific feature to prevent those armies to do anything else. If so, that was explained nowhere (not here, neither... well anywhere else akaik).

Edited 4/27/2016 16:15:37
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/27/2016 17:09:41


Timinator • apex 
Level 65
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Each army you control can only do one attack or transfer each turn. https://www.warlight.net/wiki/Gameplay_Basics#Attack.2FTransfer_phase

"Transfer Only" will cause the armies to transfer to the destination only if it is friendly and will do nothing if the destination is an enemy. https://www.warlight.net/wiki/Attack_Only_and_Transfer_Only
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/27/2016 17:30:18


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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yes and again, the whole point is that the failed transfer makes the 2nd order not work, which is what you're confused about. XD
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/28/2016 12:02:49


GiantFrog
Level 58
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@Mike

If so, that was explained nowhere (not here, neither... well anywhere else akaik).

You are correct, in the solution i was only giving instructions on what to do and no explanation why these orders will work they way they should (except in #2, as otherwise the formula would look a little random,though i once again wasnt explaining the mechanics behind transfer only). I wanted to keep it short and was hoping the game example would show you the mechanics behind it.

@Semice

For me #6 was extremely obvious... why else do they give you a gift card in MA games lol

Even though it seems like #6 is common knowledge i am pretty sure that they gave you a gift card to gift a territory to your teampartner, not your enemy. You dont have a gift card in 1v1.

it's also suprisingly OP if used in accordance with blockade card

Please explain.

Edited 5/2/2016 12:47:07
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/28/2016 13:14:33

awesomeusername
Level 60
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In multi-attack, sometimes it does makes sense to have gift cards in 1v1 games. Since each army can only move into a player-controlled territory once per turn, it can be useful to stop a stack the enemy is sending towards you.

For example, see turn 4 of this game: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9708818
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/28/2016 13:51:52


GiantFrog
Level 58
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I was able to blockade with precisely the amount of armies I wanted without having to worry about it getting interrupted (which means no bizarre blockades of 2s and 4s for me)


Looks like an ordinary blockade to me, the trick was to stop him with the gift card (which i guess is a pretty common thing in MA games, that template even had a gift card included for that reason).
If that is what you were referring to in your previous post
For me #6 was extremely obvious... why else do they give you a gift card in MA games lol
, then i am sry for not understanding you there, but that may have to do with the fact you were referring to #6, and in #6 gift card is used in a complety diffrent way (its not an MA game)

Edited 4/28/2016 14:14:34
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/28/2016 14:26:37

Red Λrmy 
Level 57
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Number 2 is the most genius thing I have ever encountered on warlight. It's so good most people probably need to read it at least twice just to understand it lol.

Since it's basis is in math, couldn't the AIs be developed to blockade like this? I think Prod 2.0 is the only AI that can use blockade cards at the moment, and doubt they're very effective at using them well. I could be wrong though; I wouldn't know as I rarely play against the AIs. Guess that's something for discussion in another thread... but maybe someone involved in AI development will read this.

The others are great tips too btw, but people will kind of figure those out for themselves eventually, at least I did, but damn that number 2 is the shit!! I would never have thought to calculate it like that, thanks.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/29/2016 11:58:18


GiantFrog
Level 58
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Number 2 is the most genius thing I have ever encountered on warlight. It's so good most people probably need to read it at least twice just to understand it lol.


thanks for your kind words.

Since it's basis is in math, couldn't the AIs be developed to blockade like this? I think Prod 2.0 is the only AI that can use blockade cards at the moment, and doubt they're very effective at using them well. I could be wrong though; I wouldn't know as I rarely play against the AIs. Guess that's something for discussion in another thread... but maybe someone involved in AI development will read this.


I feel like the current AIs wouldnt improve much by adding this, as its problems are a lot more basic.
It probably doesnt know when its a good time to place a blockade and if it does it wouldnt know which z1,z2 could do well.

A human may feel like its to much work just to place a blockade that may safe me a few armies, but its not that much work actually. At first glance it looks like a lot of claculations have to be done, but most of them were done to derive the final formula.
Now all that has to be done is to copy those formulas into wolframalpha, fill in the variables and have a result, like i did at the end (beneath the game example). Maximum 60 seconds of work.

Edited 4/29/2016 12:01:13
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/29/2016 13:03:13


Hades 
Level 63
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Just looked over these and there are some really nice ones. I've done 1, 3 and 6 before, but I'll definitely keep the others in mind incase they come in handy.

Looked over number 2, looks like a really nice idea, but not sure that's a solvable equation.
I z1= d-p*(d-f-1)
II z2= d-0.6a-p*(d-0.6a-f-1)
If we rearrange II z2= d-p*(d-f-1)-0.6a+p*0.6a = z1 - 0.6a(1-p)
Since p<1, z2 < z1. So the number of armies you blockade if he did attack, can never be more than the number of armies you blockade if he didnt.

If we used the outcome of your equations in the timi game, he had 7 armies left after being attacked, if he transfers only 4, he'll then send 0.91*2 armies back, so 2, and end up with 5 armies being blockaded rather than the 7 you wanted.

EDIT: Got z1 and z2 mixed up, see below

Edited 4/29/2016 13:58:51
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/29/2016 13:12:20

TinyToad
Level 46
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@MacnCheese

5 is exactly the amout of armies we want to blockade in case he did attc (thats actually the case the example game is showing)

7 is the amout of armies we wanted to blocade with in case he did not attac.

(1-0.91)*(30-4)=2.34 -> 2

4 armies were "frozen" with transfer only

1 army cant move as its "One army must guard"

2+4+1=7

Maybe you switched around those 2 cases ? (even though making a bigger blockade in case he does attc doesnt seem to make much sense)

Edited 4/29/2016 13:13:23
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/29/2016 13:18:53


Hades 
Level 63
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Ohhh my bad, I assumed you'd want to blockade more if he attacked, since if he attacked, he likely deployed more there, where as if he didnt attack, he probably didnt deploy very much there, and so a large blockade would be a waste. Surely assuming if he didnt attack he still deployed heavily is not going to be true most of the time?
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/29/2016 13:46:28

TinyToad
Level 46
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the size of the enemy stack is a factor that should go into your calculation of z1 and z2 (not the formula given here, but how you decide on what z1 and z2 you want to have)
You are correct, here i assumed him to have a bigger stack when not attcing (checking timis game you will see even if piggy didnt deploy at all and didnt attc, his stack would still be bigger than him deploying everything and attc after. z1=7 and z2=5 were integers i probably would have chosen)

If you face a situation where the stack actually is bigger if he attcs, your best deal indeed is to go with z1=z2

Edited 4/29/2016 13:48:31
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/29/2016 14:03:14


Hades 
Level 63
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Yeah, I guess it just relies on you correctly predicting the enemy armies and whether they'll deploy heavily even if they do not attack, but lots of good play relies on good predictions. So timi's blockade is just the specific solution to the optimal blockade for z1=z2: p=1.
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