add me

k

I would like to sign up for this.

I'd also like to join if possible, this league looks like good fun :)

Added.

Just so all is aware, I'm still waiting on a group I tiebreaker game to begin season 20. Neither the outstanding group A or C games affect promotions and relegations.

There are also a huge number of groups this season... 13 tiers and at least 3 newbie groups!

Siriusly, season 19 already? :O

Add me too!

Hi guys, id suggest that the league gets divided in 2 and then the winners duel it out for map choice.

This should bring an influx of new players on the upper tournaments more often and also reduce the 4 months waiting for another season.

Seriously waiting for a season to start is removing the fun out of it.

This way one tournament could start without the wait for the other too(in case something like what happened here happens again).
Its a lot easier to administer and get it started.

Basically instead of having PR League xx, you would have PR League xx Alpha and PR League xx Omega

(how it is now)
PR League xx:

Group A
Group B
Group C
Group D
Group E
Group F
Group G
Group H
Group I
Group J
Group K1
Group K2
Group K3
Group K4

(the suggested proposal)
PR League xx Alpha:

Group A
Group B
Group C
Group D
Group E
Group F

PR League xx Omega

Group G
Group H
Group I
Group J
Group K1
Group K2
Group K3
Group K4

Final:
Group A winner vs Group G winner.

(the names are up to you though)

Seriously climbing up the leader takes years of your life like this.
It needs fixing or bring it back as it used to be.

Edited 7/24/2016 16:31:32

Maybe a better Idea would be to just double promote every best, double relegate every worst, and then single promote and relegate every second and second to last. The top can have three relegators (one super relegate) and the bottom can have three promoters (one super promote) to help solve the problem there. So, what it would look like would be (if there were five groups):

A:

1. AA
2. BB
3. CC
4. DD
5. EE (relegate)
6. FF (relegate)
7. GG (super-relegate)

B:

1. HH (promote)
2. II (promote)
3. JJ
4. KK
5. LL
6. MM (relegate)
7. NN (super-relegate)

C:

1. OO (super-promote)
2. PP (promote)
3. QQ
4. RR
5. SS
6. TT
6. UU (relegate)
7. VV (super-relegate)

D:

1. WW (super-promote)
2. XX (promote)
3. YY
4. ZZ
5. AAA
6. BBB (relegate)
7. CCC (relegate)

E:

1. DDD (super-promote)
2. EEE (promote)
3. FFF (promote)
4. GGG
5. HHH
6. III
7. JJJ

Sirius, do you want to join the league?

Added Glam, wow, welcome back! Was so sad to see you go inactive. Is this the account you want to use, or should I add your main?

Season 20 players:
kevin#1 https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=186244509
MarkusBM https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=725103081
Motoki https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=6862295334
Doc https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=5627835089
Doron Hoh https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=8847518898
KKND https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=2921525624
MisterT https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=7714693552
[FCC] Aura Guardian https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=4127329486
Electric_Kitten https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=2614926786
BYG Jacob https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=8957617662
MIFRAN https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=4825272432
Njord https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=7139233655
Izazovnog https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=5016951331
Semicedevine https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=4328709837
Dogberry https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=7267714858
kroete https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=7137002334
Naram-Sin https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=3940013870
Coronel Gavilan https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=5842796420
carlos12.0 https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=7218885952
dry-clean-only https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=4419488318
[VS]Glamorous❤❤❤ https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=2655614440

We are at 21 new players currently. Depending on how many requests i get, i will either add a 4th noob group or waitlist additional new players.

As to the problem Metatron brings up... yes this league has gotten much larger than in prior seasons, this is the most interest I've ever seen in it. This presents a big problem for new players joining the league, as they are by default not promoted very quickly. We only really see movement in the league when players drop out. Maybe we should discuss whether or not we want to implement changes that helps the issue of new players being stuck at the bottom?

I don't like Metatron's proposal, sorry.

Aura Guardian suggests having built-in super promotions, and/or increasing the number of players promoted

Another obvious thing I can do is raise the default group size from 7 players to 8 players or more.

What does everyone think?

I would think combine expanded group sizes& superpromotions
so something like this, given a 9 person group
1st superpromote
2nd,3rd promote
4th,5th, 6th stay
7th,8th relegate
9th double relegate

8 players per group, 1 super promotion, 2 promotions, 3 relegations (I don't like idea of super-relegations) sounds like an improvement, although more players in group mean even longer season.
Maybe more games at a time too? :P

the amount of players that want to participate has increased dramatically last seasons. Imo the Round robin system is perfect for small groups so increasing the number of people in a group will only lengthen each season. I doubt it will decrease the time that much to get to the highest divisions.

Best way to speed up the league imo is to let go of the round robin version of the league and change it to 16player double elimination tournaments. The champion will super promote while the 2 finalists of the redemption make a regular promotion.

For relegations its a bit more difficult but if I am correct only 4 people can loose first round AND first round in redemption. While the rest of the normal tourney finishes these 4 could play a small round robin (3 games at a time to make sure it ends fast) to determine the relegation spots.
Winner saves himself from relegation, places 2 and 3 relegate and place 4 super relegates.

This does make it harder to promote but also rewards the newcomers that have the skill to perform in the highest divisions

But in that case you don't play every player in your group.

I have no idea if my idea will work. What if the higher divisions kept the RR format with the same number of players, while all the noob groups used a single/double elimination tourney so then the groups can be bigger at the bottom and still progress at a similar speed as the RR's?

few ideas:
- more games at once would make it end a bit faster
- more parallel groups at lower levels, example:
group A (2 drop), group B (2 prom, 2 drop), group C1 and C2 (1 prom and 2 drop each) group D1, D2, D3, D4 (1 prom each)

No, forget the increase in group size that would just worsen the problem as some pointed out.

The smaller the size of the tournaments is, the faster it goes.

Min34 is right, the best concept of Pr league is the idea that u get to fight everyone, and that is what i like about it, to fight the best players.


Buns idea seems fine.

Groups A-F get decreased group size and the rest of the groups would have a different/faster format.
It should speed up the league quite drastically, and also filter the inactives much better.

Edited 7/24/2016 22:29:16

japan77 suggests codified super promotions and relegations along with a larger group size. I think this does a lot to address the issues raised. You will get longer seasons (8 games played instead of 6) but a great player should reach group A faster under this format for two reasons: forced super-promotions, and more players per group = fewer groups to ascend. The only thing that would need to be worked out is, what about group B? Can't super promote. Do we have fewer promotions only for group B? Doesn't that make group B a bottleneck?

A lot of people claim that large group sizes would "worsen" the problem and I just don't see it. Those who think the problem would get worse, what exactly would be worse? Just the length of the season? Is that enough to offset reduced number of tiers and increased promotions?

Ollie's idea is interesting... but then it wouldn't be promotion/relegation league. It would be a completely separate league essentially. Which... maybe should happen? We can make zero or more changes to this format and introduce a different format as a completely different league.

Buns147 has an interesting idea of having qualification tournaments for lower groups but again, i think this is best implemented as a separate league.

Krzysztof suggests increasing the number of concurrent games, I presume from 2 to 3. While the league would move a little bit quicker, this also means unplanned inactivity could be catastrophic and lead to 3 losses instead of just 2. (The boot count required to be removed from league would have to be raised to 4.) It also may discourage some top players from participating because they may deem 3 games as too many.

Krzysztof's other idea is a lot more interesting: more parallel groups at lower levels. However, this would make promotion even more difficult than it already is: instead of top 2 players promoting only the top player would promote. However this directly addresses the issue of promoting up the tiers, and in case of super hard groups they can just be randomized the following season. So then the real question is, how should the groups be distributed? There is a lot of room for subjective design here.

A note, right now we have enough players for 15 groups and if enough players join maybe a 16th.

So, ideas I am currently entertaining:

* Increase default group size from 7 to 8 or 9
* Increase number of promotions and relegations from 2 to 3
* Add a default super-promotion and super-relegation (3 total promotions and relegations except for movement between group A and B)
* Increase number of concurrent games from 2 to 3, and increase number of allowed boots from 3 to 4
* Have multiple groups at same level (ex. E1 and E2) for non-newbie groups

thoughts?

i wonder if it makes sense to attempt to poll all league participants.

Edited 7/25/2016 00:27:53

I joined in season 17 just under a year ago, and I've won each group I've been in, and I'm in D now, if I keep winning, I'd get to A in another 2 seasons probably. So it takes round 5 seasons with the current system, probably 6 for people joining now. I think super promotions, or even super super promotions for people sweeping there group might be a good idea.

Or even a fast-track entry into the league, for example, if you've got a 2100+ rating in the 1v1 ladder, you can fast-track to group C. 2000+ fast-track to group D etc. Only issue is it might mess up the promotions and relegations, (but you could always alter the fast track entry points), and it would make it even longer for a good player who isnt on the ladder to get to the top. But maybe an adaption of this, like fast tracking the winners of the newbie groups. e.g. So if someone joins and sweeps M2, you could fast track them to group D or something.