Well, as a player I certainly want to know what happens if we get drafted in B, perform well, but our team does not get promoted. Would I play in B for 2 seasons, then be a FA? I need to know before B auctions because if that is a yes, I might be better off joining next season and get auctioned then. I don't know. I don't mind playing a season with lower people, so long as I don't have to wait a long time to play in A.

And when I say "I", I mean any player, not me specifically (since we have not had round 7 yet).

If you get drafted by a team in Group B, you play for that team for 2 seasons in B(unless promoted). There is a transfer window at the end of season 1. If a club from A bids, and your current club accepts, you get transferred to the Group A club. We're still working out the details of direct trades between clubs.
It is entirely up to you if you want to make yourself available for Group B or wait it out another season to see if you get picked as a free agent by a Group A club. But if you didn't get picked this season, why would the chances be better next season(considering a lot of good players who are currently not involved + late sign ups will be eligible for A)?

Other people bring up a good point. If a team gets promoted, it will not have had the chance to buy any players that went in A Rounds 1-7 (only bidding on leftovers and late comers). On the other hand, group A did not get a chance for any late comers. So that promoted team could be stronger than usual or weaker than usual in A. Who knows? Most likely weaker, since the talent that came late probably is more evenly distributed as there will be much fewer of them.

I would think that the promoted club from Group B would definitely be weaker. But they will receive prize money to help their finances a bit. This also puts them in a great position to bid for the new players who join next season(since other clubs will be low on finances - except Uncle Scrooge(KKND)). However, they should still find it hard to compete in A(which is how it is in any league)

Anyways, no one can force you to continue the league if you really don't want to play in your team anymore. This is a game, this is fun.

BTW, I think there should be a rule about players that want to leave between seasons and before their contract is over. Or do rules about letting players go between seasons cover that in a way that a player who left won't be counted as booted player in his ten or five games and won't receive salary anymore? It's pretty complex already, so excuse me if I just see a problem where there is none. ;-)

You're right. No one can force someone to play. However, if a player signs up for a certain number of games, and then boots/surrenders without reason, they can be reported to the league. The club will make a loss and lose out on points in that season. But the player will be banned from participating in the league in the future(unless they can provide a reasonable explanation). The club will also have to pay the full salary regardless.

Group B sounds very undervalued to Group A but with all the late sign ups i hope it could compete somehow. We should change the communication about group B and allow more promotion (2, not because Group A is much more competing, but because teams -managers AND players- want to win the top league, again not in terms of level but its essence = it's designed to be the top).

Otherwise Group B will have few interest with no top players to at least lead the team and very limited promtion to get a chance to win the overall league.

We can allow for 2 promotions from Group B after the second season. I think the gap between clubs in A and B are substantial this season. Promoting two clubs from Group B may make for a lopsided league. Let the clubs stabilize into top-medium-low tiers, and then it will make more sense to have 2 promotions in my opinion. If a lot of folks feel strongly about this, let me know, and I can reconsider.

@ death:
> than 16 percent bootrate and a split personality looks reliable for every manager to purchase a corp member.
Thx for all the work motd,its interesting!

If it isn't too late already I'll join for group B for 10 games. Thanks.

Edited 3/2/2016 13:11:14

If completely necessary, I'd manage in a Group C while playing for another team (if I am drafted).

I know it doesn't look too well, The Hound. Not like I care too much, was just pointing out ;)

Yes, big props to deadman for reviving this. With how you set it up I can see continued success going forward.

Apologies in advance for a very long post. Hopefully it makes a somewhat informative pre-season read...

---

Firstly, I don't want to confuse anyone when I mention slots. For example, a 3v3 Round Robin (RR) Tournament with 6 teams has 3 slots per team, not 15 slots; the RR format ensures every team plays 5 games.

As such, for this league and this post I count 11 player slots to fill, each to play 5 games (55 slots if you prefer) and each player predefined to play either 1 or 2 slots (5 or 10 games). Now that that's clarified, we can continue.

---

The league will comprise of 4 1v1s, 2 2v2s, 1 3v3 Round Robin Tournaments ... Each 1v1 will be worth 3 points, each 2v2 4 points and each 3v3 5 points. The club with the maximum total points at the end of the season wins the championship!!

Each club has a 'maximum attainable point value' over the season;

4*(5*3 pts)=60 pts to be won in 20 1v1s; (4 RR)*(1 slot)            [1v1 Season Total: 4*15*3pts=180pts]
2*(5*4 pts)=40 pts to be won in 10 2v2s; (2 RR)*(2 slots)           [2v2 Season Total: 2*15*4pts=120pts]
1*(5*5 pts) =25 pts to be won in 5 3v3s; (1 RR)*(3 slots)         [3v3 Season Total: 1*15*5pts= 75pts]

Available points per club: 125pts
Available points, per RR Tournament, per club: 1v1:15pts, 2v2:20pts, 3v3:25pts

[Season Totals: Points Total of all 6 clubs combined. Calculated with knowledge that each six entity Round Robin tournament will have 15 games/winners/losers.]

This revealed a significant thing or two about the scoring system. The 1v1s hold almost as much 'maximum attainable point value' as 2v2 and 3v3 combined. It arguably enables individuals to carry their club, if a manager's choice is to prioritise their top players for 1v1 tournaments. Note how some of the best 1v1 players have been bought for well over base price. However if all managers invest so heavily in the 1v1 tournaments, then these players could well face the toughest opponents and are arguably unable to carry their teams as well as managers may have hoped. How managers chose to allocate their players will no doubt be crucial.

---

Here, I look at certain elements of the concept at some length, wondering if certain changes may be considered for future seasons. Adjusting 1v1:2v2:3v3 games to score 1pts:2pts:3pts per win gives a maximum attainable point ratio of 20pts:20pts:15pts, and 1:2:4 gives 20:20:20. Compare this with the current 60:40:25. Would it be better to weight the scoring in a way that forces managers to value each tournament 'type' more evenly? Currently, it is clear that 1v1 is the greatest opportunity to win the club points and the potential 60 points at stake will not be low priority. A club that scores 63 of their available 125 points guarantees mathematical safety from a last place finish; more on mathematical safety later.

The current format puts higher value in team games but it's slightly diminished by having fewer of them, as the above ratios show. I'm unsure how this format was chosen, but for the 2nd season or at least the 3rd (when most players will be re-released into the market), I would prefer to see only three 1v1 tournaments and an additional 3v3 or perhaps 2v2. My reason is that it's currently rather predictable that the weakest players in a club roster will feature in 3v3 and possibly 2v2. It's a risky strategy to feature two or three of the club's most expensive players, all of whom thereafter limited to one other tournament (assuming players are of 2-slot availability). There's more sense in allocating top players to as many of the 7 RR tournaments as possible.

It would be nice to see 2v2 and 3v3 as fiercely contested as 1v1. This may well be the strategy of a gutsy manager, but I have my doubts, though I hope to be proven wrong. I suppose part of the challenge will be for the manager to handle the situation as best they can. For example, if a manager could secure players for 1-slot (5-games) near base price, they could reserve expensive players for priority tournaments (whatever they may be) and still maintain a strong enough presence for those tournaments that remain.

This brings me onto 1-slot (5-game) players. The concept stated that 1-slot options would have lower return on investment but I have not yet seen how. Base prices are 50% and so two 1-slot players have equal value to a 2-slot player. Salaries are derived as a percentage of price and income is unaffected. Unsurprisingly, many players available for 1 slot, have been snapped up. Some of these prices however are very surprising. Whether 2-slot or 1-slot, every Tier 3 player and above deserved a bid at base price (which is clearly below true value). In doing so, some clubs have scooped some absolute steals from the top tiers.

---

With a season comprising of 375 points to be divided between 6 clubs (see 'Season Totals' near beginning), every club should target 63 of their maximum attainable 125 points to guarantee mathematical safety from relegation (assuming only one relegation place);

A club that scores 63pts is safe from relegation: 63+63+63+63+63+63=378
Every club cannot score a final total of 63 points; in order to achieve the total of 375 available points, 3 points must be deducted from at least one club. As a result, there will be at least one club with fewer than 63 points and this club would be relegated.

A club that scores 62pts is at risk of relegation: 62+62+62+62+62+62=372
If every club has scored a total of 62 points, 3 points of the available 375 remain to be allocated, and the possibility remains to be in joint last place with 62 points.

It would not be outside of reasonable possibility to speculate the season end league table will look something like the example below.

Club A: 75         With 125 points available to each club, there are numerous variations of the table finish. The season
Club B: 73        will likely establish 'top-medium-low' club levels. It should provide a sufficient range in total points
Club C: 65      to determine two well earned places for promotion/relegation; the very unrealistic worst case
Club D: 57       scenario is 3 clubs tie for the championship with 63 pts and the bottom 3 clubs tie with 62 pts, thus
Club E: 53      resulting in unclear 'deserving' places. Whether we promote/relegate one place or two, it will be just
Club F: 52      as likely to encounter level points in the league table, so it should not affect the decision.

Promoted clubs will always fight to avoid relegation the following season, and relegated clubs will look to bounce back. With only one place ⁦available, it could feel more restrictive and difficult for second division clubs; a promoted club would have a tough task surviving relegation the following season if completely outclassed by all other clubs. Two promoted clubs would at least offer each other a more equal opponent in the top division. The league may become slightly lopsided if both promoted clubs are outclassed, but I would argue it's still better than one club alone being outclassed which would be miserable. Due to separate auctions, I suspect second division teams will always be at a fairly moderate disadvantage after promotion, at least until the next major auction post Season 2, after which the distribution of ability will hopefully be more even. Of course the second division was never initially planned for, so for now, its fair to expect a fairly rough campaign for the season after promotion.

I personally see little downside to the proposition of two promotion/relegation places; more evident are it's benefits which add more opportunity and motivation for the second division and more drama and concern for the top division. A boost in all-round excitement and determination is more than welcome. I don't see any new, long-term complications that would arise.

Club A: 75           With two relegation places, mathematical safety is affected. The target points total for each club
Club B: 75        should be 76 points. Assuming the extreme case that one club loses every game, and the remaining
Club C: 75      five clubs share the Season Total of 375 points, we then have the following scenario on the left. This
Club D: 75       scenario shows how 75 points is not necessarily enough to avoid relegation. Also note that it is
Club E: 75      impossible to score 76 points and finish in the bottom two places. As soon as you attempt to adjust
Club F: 0         one of the scores to 76, two clubs inevitably will have scores lower than 76 points and be relegated.

There is still yet to be clear information on how the league position of clubs who are level on points will be decided; something that should be announced before managers submit their lineups. Logically, I had assumed we would inspect the total number of individual games won, but I fear the setup arguably already encourages prioritising the numerous 1v1s. Total wins being the tie-breaker would only further encourage this. Perhaps in the event of level points we could inspect the sum of the total 3v3 and 2v2 wins, and if still tied, only then the total 1v1 wins? This order of scrutiny would help somewhat in countering those clubs who may have under prioritised the team games in favour of 1v1.

---

Disclaimer: Try as I might to not be, I may well be wrong about all of the above :/

Edited 3/2/2016 21:51:54

1vs1 should not be weighted same as teamgames. One player can lead a team on a 3vs3 to victory if his teammates cooperate. The actual point system makes more sense to me but we will see how it turns out this season

It arguably enables individuals to carry their club, if a manager's choice is to prioritise their top players for 1v1 tournaments.

No one player can carry their club as they can play a maximum amount of 10 games (2 slots) and there are 4 slots which would mean you would need at least two players to achieve this. However, if you look at any football team (or other pro sport): yes they have a few superstars but it's their core players that make them champions.

Due to separate auctions, I suspect second division teams will always be at a fairly moderate disadvantage after promotion, at least until the next major auction post Season 2, after which the distribution of ability will hopefully be more even. Of course the second division was never initially planned for, so for now, its fair to expect a fairly rough campaign for the season after promotion.

Incorrect. Teams having the ability to transfer would allow the promoted team to have extra cash and resources to secure players on transfers. The manager that is relegated would not want a high-priced player because the ROI is lower, thus it would be better to transfer, cut loses already and pick up a player or two more suited for the league.

The results for Round 7 are as follows:

Club                       Player                          Price             Game Count

---

Robot Unicorns             Ace Windu                        24                 10

WTF                        ChrisCMU                         41                 10

Spuds                      INSIDE                            9                  5(reduced)
Spuds                      rocky1                           14                 10
Spuds                      Tac(ky)tical                      6                  5(reduced)

RandomPlayers              Good Kid                         12                  5(reduced)

This concludes the auction for Group A. All free agents left in the pool, will be made available to Group B clubs. I will post my final thoughts on the make-up of clubs and what the season holds for each of them tonight.

All managers in Group A have 24 hours to finalize their line-ups. I will create the tournaments and kick off Group A tomorrow night.

Great Expanse will be the official scorekeeper for both divisions! I'm super excited to have him on-board and look forward to his coverage of the league.

"Great Expanse will be the official scorekeeper for both divisions! I'm super excited to have him on-board and look forward to his coverage of the league."

Deserved its own post, imh!

Glad I put in that disclaimer lol. I was sure I'd have a few things wrong :)

@Master Ree, I never meant one player alone could fully carry a club. I wondered whether say 3 skilled players in 30/55 games (55%) could secure something around 70% of a clubs final points for that season. I argued the validity and practicality of that with myself though. All I really stand by from that paragraph is that point scoring favours 1v1 above 2v2 and 3v3.

I didn't think to expect much trade between clubs. You're probably right for it to make sense, but I don't quite see where the low ROI lies. The following season, a relegated club need only pay the player salaries. Would they not keep their stronger players to stand a better chance at promotion? I haven't given finances a proper look but, from what you're saying, I'm guessing they couldn't afford it without trading out valuable players? Anyway, I've likely misunderstood trade and thats why earlier, I had suspected a gap in ability to still be there somewhat, at least until the next major auction where all clubs can bid from a single market. I hope I'm not also mistaken about whether the two divisions will both bid in the same auction next time.

@MoD, You make a very good point; I retract the alternatively suggested ratios in my previous post. The current weighting of 60:40:25 had seemed a tad steep to me, but I guess it's not actually that steep if you compare 1v1 with all other team games which have potential to be carried. 60:65 is not unreasonable. I was being purely speculative and trying to understand how the creators may have arrived at those numbers. Fine as they are to proceed with, I was curious if its possible to improve them. I should reserve judgement until after the first season but the current distribution makes me feel like 3v3 will be neglected :/

The only new alternative I have on a whim would be a 40:30:20 distribution.
Let A=4 B=2 C=1 X=2 Y=3 and Z=4, where;

A: Number of 1v1 RR Tournaments
B: Number of 2v2 RR Tournaments
C: Number of 3v3 RR Tournaments
X: Points per 1v1 win
Y: Points per 2v2 win
Z: Points per 3v3 win

1v1:2v2:3v3 Points Distribution = 5AX:5BY:5CZ = 40:30:20. I am trying to keep A B and C values the same but there's no doubt more variations.

---

Thanks for reading my essay lol and the responses. I take it that means the rest was fairly accurate ;)

I am buying players even lower that their base price. Amazing :D

Final auction round up.

Legends of Light - Master Turtle

---

Players bought          Games
Summer	                 10
Master Ryiro	         10
Gustave II	         10
Hades	                 10
timon92	                 10
Glamorous❤ 	          5
smileyleg {TJC}	          5 

The club finishes with a late signing in smileyleg {TJC}. They've done some great business, but do they have enough specialists in 0% WR templates? Look really solid overall.


Warsenal WC - Tjoex

---

Players bought          Games
Great Expanse	          5
OxTheArtist 	          5
steve1513 	          5
Master Atom ◆Elite◆	  5
dodo comander	         10
wakanarai	          5
andy903	                 10
Krzychu	                 10
Vicnus	                  5

Paid more than most for their Tier 1 and Tier 2 players. Will be looking to Master Atom ◆Elite◆ to lead their charge in 3v3 EU. The club has an underdog feel to it. A lot of players who have great chemistry and work well as a team. Will that be enough to challenge the heavyweights in this division? We shall see...


Spuds - hedja

---

Players bought          Games
ps	                 10
master of desaster	 10
Timinator	         10
Cloud Strife	         10
INSIDE 	                  5
rocky1	                 10
Tac(ky)tical	          5

To say the club has overpaid on some of their stars would be the biggest understatement!
rocky1 and INSIDE and are solid players and I was surprised they didn't get picked up until round 7. The club has had a great round 7 and looks much better than I thought it would be. It still has a lop sided feel to it. Will the manager field his big guns on the 1v1s to try and dominate? I'm not sure what the strategy is, but I'm worried about their 3v3 on Europe.


RandomPlayers - KKND

---

Players bought          Games
Oh	                  5
Turkish	                 10
Super Smoove	         10
MisterT	                  5
Jefferspin 	         10
Farah♦ 	                  5
Motoki	                 10
Good Kid	          5

The club with the highest bank balance at the end of the auctions. They have enough money to buy another team! Have a lot of solid players, but how they will hold up against some of the more famous names is anyone's guess. I think they will do well on team games, but may struggle on the 1v1s.


Robot Unicorns - Kenny • apex

---

Players bought          Games
Nackickwind 	          5
Sephiroth	         10
Grosshandlaren	          5
Tony Sodano	         10
Verzehrer	          5
Buns157	                 10
Ace Windu	         10

The clear winners of the auction in my book. They have secured their Tier 1 at the lowest price! They have landed a lot of bargains. Look solid throughout their squad. A lot of players of comparable skill level who are used to playing with each other. They will certainly be the favourites, especially on team games. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on them winning the league!


WTF - Platinum

---

Players bought          Games
MarkusBM 	         10
Master Miyagi • apex	 10
Mirror	                  5
Roooob	                 10
Beren • apex	         10
Pushover	          5
ChrisCMU	         10

The club has really turned it around in the last 3 rounds. They were looking a bit lightweight having missed out on a lot of targets up until round 4. But they have captured some strong players in the later rounds. They've probably overpaid for some of their stars, but has a completely different look to it now.

Edited 3/3/2016 08:12:42

I have created a prediction poll. Rank the clubs in the order you think they will finish! I will declare results one week after the start of Group A. Please use your Warlight names, or I will filter out your response from the final results.

http://goo.gl/sDJGiz

Aww... why have they picked people like master of desaster instead if me...
can't understand these managers...


Nice math there red army. I really like how much efford is made for this league. I hope it will not be disturbed to much because of inactive players.

I would also like to see more teamgames, this might also increase the chance for not that well known players/teams. But I understand that this will not be changed any time soon.

I think that 2 relegation slots will be more intresting too. It keeps up the preassure on more participants.

Have you thought about some financial bonus for teams who manage from B to A? It would help them to adjust their team, but I am not sure if this would put to much money into the system then. But in this case you could also adjust the gained money in division B.
This would then feel more like a punishment to play in B, but on the other hand could increase the gap between the teams. Especially for the new barter for season 3. This can also be intended though. You just have to decide if you prefer equal (financial) chances, or if you want to create a division A and division B feeling.

Would there be power rankings / player rankings where you rank teams and top 10 players after each week? I believe that it would be exciting if it happens

Manager's League Updates:

---

Hello everyone! I'll be doing the scorekeeping and updating for this season of Managers League. If you're not familiar with my scorekeeping, check out the Clan League Season 7 - Division D1 thread. https://www.warlight.net/Forum/112992-clan-league-7-division-d1-official-thread

I don't plan on changing much from the Clan League updating format but I have planned to track additional data point(s). If you have any feedback (like Motoki's comment on including Power Rankings), I'm open to anything that helps me write concise but information rich posts for this league.

I will do a large, weekly updates with four main components:

• Horse Race with Team Rankings
  
• Points Growth Chart
  
• Win Rates over Time Chart
  
• Power Rankings

I will be updating the spreadsheet daily or every other day so don't ask here for me to post constantly, go to the spreadsheet where there is an Summary tab setup for both divisions. Then just wait for the weekly update post.

Summary Tab:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TrROyrlweJm1Z77tpTfN0Fieaistkvm5sHygLAnDzXI/edit#gid=956694772

I like to add little visual touches to the charts like the Clan Icons. So if each team wants to come up with a team icon as their logo, I'd like to include that for these posts.

We're getting close to this getting started and once the tournaments have been created we can get into predictions.

Great Expanse, you need to fix the graphs, no games have started yet.

And someone has also tried to shortcut the sale value by referencing another sheet, it failed.

Edited 3/3/2016 17:22:27