However then the Third Reich was an obviously atheist society inspired by Darwinism and not by any biblical values.

Was it now?


“The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement)
was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.”
[Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf”, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]

“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty
Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”
[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of
the Almighty Creator.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]

“This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the
practical existence of a religious belief.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.152]

“And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his
estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove
those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.174]

“Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another… while the
enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve.”
[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.309]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StaPF5qqFDk

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/23/list-of-hitler-quotes-he-was-q/

How Controversial? Well, even the most conservative polls put the percentage of americans opposed to Obergefell v. Hodges at 35-60%.

source: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/07/29/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/

lol honestly? You do realize mein kampf was propaganda right? Hitlers book was meant to rally the people behind him. At the time he was writing it, hitler was afraid of scaring off the Christians, they made up a big chunk of the germen people.


Hitler was a Darwinist through and through and darwins ideas partly justified hitlers preachings of races inferior to the Aryans. In all honesty, its really just bullshit to say the man was a complete Christian or an atheist, he was just basically an insane and used ideas from both to grow his beliefs. Pointing figures to Christians or atheists and saying he was one of us is a cheap move by both groups and im tired of it. In conclusion, you both need to grow up and stop using evil men in history to drag the other persons religion or belief system through the mud

About the Third reich, you can read about their persecution of christians in these articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reich_Church

If you're going to try to tell me that Nazi's were pro-christian, keep in mind that the publication of the bible was banned in germany. The Nazis saw christianity as a jewish conspiracy to weaken the master race. Claiming that they were christians, or even atheists that were friendly to christians is a demonstration of ignorance about the third reich.

You can't rely on quotes from hitler to prove that the nazis were christians, because hitler was crazy and constantly on cocaine(Look it up).

source: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/07/29/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/

Yes, thanks for backing me up here and linking a source that says that 35-60% of americans oppose gay marriage.

Edited 2/3/2016 20:44:48

This thread is an affront to the holy lord himself.
The marriage of two people of the same gender is a sin that should never be allowed.

I'm not that familiar with Nazi ideology however I have read Mein Kampf though not from first to last page. It was quite clear there that Hitler saw himself as something like a "working man" or an "honorable soldier" and he clearly despised intellectualism or all kinds of mystical beliefs. Some of Hitlers companions followed some mystical pre Christian Germanic believe system however Hitler was a "simple soldier".

From the Wikipedia page that Imperator linked:
"Documents used in evidence at the Nuremberg Trials concluded that the Nazis planned to de-Christianise Germany. [...] Among its articles: the National Reich Church of Germany was to claim exclusive control over all churches; publication of the Bible was to cease; crucifixes, Bibles and saints were to be removed from altars; and Mein Kampf was to be placed on altars as "to the German nation and therefore to God the most sacred book"; and the Christian Cross was to be removed from all churches and replaced with the swastika"

Edited 2/3/2016 21:10:09

I'm just saying, for an "atheist society", there is a lot of God involved, with Hitler publically invoking God's will, all the Third Reich soliers armouring the "God with us" motto and all...

I'm not saying that Hitler's primary motivation was religion, i don't belive that, but saying that Nazy Germany was an "obviously atheist society" is really laughably wrong.

Whatever was in Hitler's head, he sure did justified his actions with the Bible to get support from christians, and he got it. The church having spread antisemitic rethoric for centuries in Europe surely helped him a lot. Thats just facts.

Now why is it so easy to use the Bible to promote slavery, and murder of jews and homosexuals?
The answer is quite simple, it is because you can find mutliple passages in the Bible promoting just that.

Edited 2/3/2016 21:18:06

In the OT!!! good lord! I keep telling you don't attack the bible or defend it if you don't know enough about it!. Something I learned when I was 10 and debating on the issue of if higher taxes was the answer. I learned that if I had not read enough on the subject then just randomly attacking it made me look like a fool. So I read more on the subject, and wiped the kids ass next time I saw him.


BTW I can tell your just typing in " anti Christian arguments ect. " on your google search because the arguments your coming up with are all over the place and basically propaganda atheist stopped using years ago when they ' updated ' and formed new arguments.

Edited 2/3/2016 21:25:31

The OT is a big chunk of the Bible... and you may dismiss it (good for you) but as you can see Norman and a lot of christians aren't so eager to do so, and with good theological reasons. I know enough of the bible to attack it, i can garantee you that.

the arguments your coming up with are all over the place and basically propaganda atheist stopped using years ago when they ' updated '

lol wich argument is that? I'm arguing with facts. Why don't you quote me and tell me wich of my argument is "atheist propaganda"?

" Now why is it so easy to use the Bible to promote slavery, and murder of jews and homosexuals?
The answer is quite simple, it is because you can find mutliple passages in the Bible promoting just that. "


You do realize a lot of atheist stopped using this argument when they found out that a lot of those passages were being taken out of context or they were from the OT which was jewish and had at the time had a different culture?


and for the love of everything holy I am not abandoning the OT! I am just saying it is not as relevant then the NT


And what exactly is there in atheism that says its wrong to enslave others? according to atheism, if there is no god then there is no after life to fear or look forward too, and thus there is no punishment for what you do in this life. So there is no such thing as right or wrong, just what you think feels good or what you want to do because there is nothing to fear and no punishment for what you do to others. So if there is no right or wrong then what is the point? The only right without religion is what you think is right and what you think is evil. So Ted down the street could think its perfectly right and just to rape his cousin. And since there is no official right or wrong, what is the cousin going to do? all she has is what she thinks is wrong and at the moment, that aint gonna do her much good.


Our entire society is based off of what religion says is honorable, Right, or wrong. The world has accepted these things and it is not even considered part of religion anymore, just common sense. So you can sit there and tell me religion is no good, but this world with pure atheism would be pretty heartless and cold

Edited 2/3/2016 21:42:36

You do realize a lot of atheist stopped using this argument when they found out that a lot of those passages were being taken out of context or they were from the OT which was jewish and had at the time had a different culture?

Nope, i don't realize that because it is false for one, we can go over the morally wicked passages of the Bible and discuss the context and its relevance if you want, but i'm definitely quite convinced that a lot of passages in the Bible are moraly unjustifiable whatever the context. (Justifiable for dark ages morals sure, but not by an omnibenevolent God's morals)

according to atheism, if there is no god then there is no after life to fear or look forward too, and thus there is no punishment for what you do in this life. So there is no such thing as right or wrong, just what you think feels good or what you want to do because there is nothing to fear and no punishment for what you do to others

Oh wow, you went there. Atheism represent the disbelief in any deities (and more narrowly, the belief that there is no deity). Thats it. There is no ideology tied to atheism.

The thing is, i try to do good because i have my own set of morals, that are based on reason and education. I don't do good because i fear punishement, no. If fact, if the only reason you do good is because you are afraid of punishement, then you are not really a good person.

edit: lol i can't believe you are using Phil Robertson's arguments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jvKi221I4Q

Edited 2/3/2016 22:09:17

Our entire society is based off of what religion says is honorable, Right, or wrong. The world has accepted these things and it is not even considered part of religion anymore, just common sense. So you can sit there and tell me religion is no good, but this world with pure atheism would be pretty heartless and cold

I wholeheartedly disagree with everything in that statement


edit:
Please watch this debate between Sam Harris and William Lane Craig, on the foundation of morality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqaHXKLRKzg

If you are not convinced that the argument of morality from God is wrong after this, there is nothing i can ever say that will make you change your mind.

Edited 2/3/2016 22:40:47

Ok then, Your basically saying that morality is just something that is recognized by all 4 billion people on this planet as generally the right thing to do and it all started with a cave man who decided one day not to steal from his friend and then it just progressed to the point where it affected everything? no motives, nothing.....



Wow, that's almost as stupid as the idea that we all came from apes....

Or that a big explosion in space created us all.....

or that babys go through a process of turning into a donkey, ape, horse before becoming human inside the mother

.....Yes, this all seems logical



Here is why I will never accept evolution.


If I stick a whale inside a room and leave him there with enough food to last and females to create offspring and then leave for a million years or so.....Evolution says when I come back I will probably find a cow......

And people say Creationists are nuts....

Edited 2/3/2016 22:14:28

Hitch, Morality cannot just randomly form in a persons mind with no motive or origin and then spread through generations and reach around 4 billion people



Something cannot come from nothing

Your basically saying that morality is just something that is recognized by all 4 billion people on this planet as generally the right thing to do

You might wanna check how many people there is on this planet. And saying that they all agree on what is right and what is wrong is factually wrong in every way. There is probably not 2 people on this planet that can agree 100% on what is right and what is wrong.

and it all started with a cave man who decided one day not to steal from his friend and then it just progressed to the point where it affected everything? no motives, nothing.....

haha whaaaaaaaaat?

Wow, that's almost as stupid as the idea that we all came from apes....

Or that a big explosion in space created us all.....

or that babys go through a process of turning into a donkey, ape, horse before becoming human inside the mother

.....Yes, this all seems logical



Here is why I will never accept evolution.


If I stick a whale inside a room and leave him there with enough food to last and females to create offspring.....Evolution says when I come back I will probably find a cow......

lol i don't know who's coolaid you have been drinking, but your policy to learn about things before criticizing it sure went away quickly

Litteraly every statement you wrote is inaccurate.

And people say Creationists are nuts....

You can't begin to realize the irony in that statement, after what you've just said

Lol I just described much of the basis of evolution and you just told me I was wrong.....ok I guess your a special kind of stupid ;)


anyway this is not the point of the thread and it probably has served its purpose

Morality cannot just randomly form in a persons mind with no motive or origin and then spread through generations and reach around 4 billion people

I agree. Does it mean God is the origin of morality? of course not, there is no logical connection between the 2 statements.

Something cannot come from nothing

So God can't come from nothing? Who created God then? Let me guess...this statement is true for everything BUT God?

btw, read A Universe From Nothing from Lawrence Krauss, it could change your perspective on what is nothing

Lol I just described much of the basis of evolution and you just told me I was wrong.....ok I guess your a special kind of stupid ;)

Nope, you've just described what ignorant creationists believe to be true about evolution. Not surprisingly, everything you described is wrong.

edit: I strongly encourage you to look up every statement you made, and cross examine them with what scientific papers actually say. If the reason you don't believe in evolution is because you think that the theory of evolution is what you described, then i strongly suggest you to actually inquire about what really is the Theory of Evolution. Because i agree,*IF* all of your statements about evolution were true, then yes the theory of evolution really is incredibly stupid

Edited 2/3/2016 23:04:09

If you stick a small population of things somewhere and wait for a long time, then yes, you will find a new group of things that are well-adapted to the environment.