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An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/15/2015 06:00:14


BanaNa
Level 30
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Observations:

All (or almost all, I could be wrong) strategic clans don't have government hierarchies. I have not spotted a single Prime Minister, Chief Intelligence Officer, Senator, Admiral-General, King, or Supreme Emperor among the strategic clans at all. What titles exist are completely based off of ladder performance or pure strategic merit.

Intricate clan government hierarchies, elaborate ranks of "warlight nobility", and lengthy constitutions are only found in diplo/rp clans. To be clear not all diplo/rp clans have clan govt hierachy but the only clans with govt hierachies seem to be rp/diplo based. Same logic as all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.

Why is this pattern so? A possible theory is that some clans carry their rp in-game to their clan interactions. Another possible theory is that "rp/diplo clan leaders feel the need to empower themselves with pompous-sounding official titles and set up meaningless government hierarchies while half their clan goes inactive and the other half don't know what a clan game/clan tournament/clan chat looks like because they've never been invited to one.

feel free to disagree or provide your own theory as to why this phenomenon is the way it is

Edited 11/15/2015 06:01:45
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/15/2015 06:51:21


TBest 
Level 60
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Hmm. Well here is one way to view my clan's hierarchy.

King (President, PM, Leader etc.) AyanM, Owner of the clan.
Nobility (Council members) Melethron, SpartanKillerElite, AyanM, fifi, Norman.
Common people, normal members.

Constitution: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NyhCpIQKShAbWGXicO_ph9whV_UyMS-3a7_re0C7R8Y/edit#heading=h.g1s8mzy7wor0

(You 'have' to follow the rules)


Point is that the "government" is organized to support the purpose of the clan, whatever that is.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/15/2015 17:29:28


BanaNa
Level 30
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that's a constitution? looks like a helpful and well-written strategy guide to me.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/15/2015 18:32:43


TBest 
Level 60
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^For a strategic clan the "constitution" is essentially a strategic guide, yes. (At least that is an arguable viewpoint when comparing diplo and strat governments.)
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/15/2015 20:22:08


Kyger
Level 60
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If your a strategic clan, you have no need for any of that because you just play strategically, if you're an RP clan the entire point is to RP and put up a theme. Wouldn't quite have the same merit if I made someones title "supreme panda" in a USSR themed clan. Of course some clans out there do it for the purpose of power and end up over complicating things as you said.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/15/2015 20:33:51


Nogals 
Level 58
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strategic and elite clans also have fewer members. RP and Diplo clans have a lot of players that they have to organise. We just play for fun and our hierarchy which consists of a council of several players which isn't used for anything other than recruiting new members.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/15/2015 20:38:40


Rivanna
Level 54
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Not that anything, but is 83 members "fewer"?
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/15/2015 21:23:55


Onoma94 
Level 60
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That's because RP/diplo games are role-playing a government/nation, so when you have clan full of people playing those games, they would like to bring their RP skills into clan government too.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 03:47:53

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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Yep, one Anomaly to the data totally makes a difference, also some RP clans are quite larger than that. Generally speaking though, most clans with larger populations are RP, and smaller populations are strategic. Exceptions seem to exist in both directions though.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 12:21:00


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 51
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Stop talking down to the diplo community. They are rising to dominate WarLight. Strat is dying. Accept that fact.
Good day.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 13:20:58


Nogals 
Level 58
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^ sad reality, I wonder how Frizzer will cater for this.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 14:25:06


###NooB SmAsHeR###
Level 55
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all you need is good friends
strategic guides and constitution are not something that hold a clan together

also,diplo players are noobs
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 14:27:29


Riveath
Level 59
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Not necessarily, some diplo players are good strategic players as well. Not saying all of them and not saying outstanding, but there are some good players who like to RP as well.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 14:31:05


master of desaster 
Level 65
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I know no very good strategic player who also plays diplos. Miyagi and apollo used to but i don't think they still do.

I tought about it and walter ego falls probably in that category. No idea tough how often he plays diplos. He just mentioned it a few days ago.

Edited 11/16/2015 14:38:22
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 14:45:16


hedja 
Level 58
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mod you're level of "very good strategic player" is not the same as what Death was calling a "good strategic player", it is more like his "outstanding" player.
I imagine your classifcation of a very good strategic player is basically someone who could give you a run for your money in a 1v1. Unfortunately the number of those players on warlight is very small and most don't want to waste time with diplos.
{RP} used to have some good players back in the day but not sure what their standard would be equivalent to now or if there were even that good and I'm looking fondly on the past.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 15:06:12


###NooB SmAsHeR###
Level 55
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agree
rp games were actually playable once
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 15:17:41


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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I think Math Wolf plays diplo or at least large FFAs.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 15:26:14


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Huge difference between ffas and diplos. I used to play tons of ffas.
with disabled private chat and no alliances it can be fun.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 15:27:36

HomeLess
Level 55
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90% of diplos= glorified lotteries
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 16:48:31


Riveath
Level 59
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^ hence I'm not joining open games anymore, it makes it a little less random... just a little tho.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 16:55:17


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I used to play {rp} games a lot. I know there were some other strategic players that did as well. Ruthless Bastard, Noobschool, Gnullbegg, GOATFINGER come to mind (in addition to Apollo and Miyagi mentioned). I used to have about 4-5 different rp ones going. Even Fizzer played in some with us, and myhand.

Here are some examples:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3008072
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3067690
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=2996556

I have not seen any diplomacy ones in a LONG time (don't think I have played one in 3+ years). Are they glorified lotto games like mentioned in this thread above, or are they quality ones like the 3 I posted here?


Anyway, to the original point of lacking hierarchies, I run WG and we are a strategic clan. But, we vote on everything. I am more of the speaker of the house if you will. I think that keeps everyone involved and invested in the clan doing well.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 17:18:50

[NL] Sander
Level 59
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I am playing some diplo games with other players, however to me it seems the open ones in general don't turn out right and are very unfair.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 17:36:01


JT 
Level 59
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^ "Are they glorified lotto games like mentioned in this thread above, or are they quality ones like the 3 I posted here?"

90% of Diplo's that hit the Open Games tab are glorified lotteries. hot garbage boot fests for noobs.

But just like most serious Strategic players dont play games off the open games list, i dont think the serious RP/Diplo folks play from there either.

i think most of us who have been here awhile have more than enough games to play without ever picking from the open games list, regardless of game type preference.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 17:41:14

[NL] Sander
Level 59
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I sometimes still pick an open multi-day game (diplo of westeros in general), but only if I like the settings and at least know the host.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 17:42:36


Lolicon love
Level 56
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Yeah open games suck mostly ecpesially with rp/diplo games but i get invited to a good amount of private-ish ones with good players so connections are important.
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 18:09:33


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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@Loli Agreed. There is a quite exclusive community (max 60 people, spread across about 10 clans + unclanned) of active diplo+rpers that rarely ever get booted, have intense RP, play frequent games, and make diplos far more exciting than the ones in open games. The impression that most players have in diplomacy is skewed, due to private games being of a far higher quality than public games. The definition of "good" strategic diplomacy players is also debatable, comparing how "good" you define it as. Players like Ranek are intense role players, but also excel strategically. The assertion that all players who play diplos are noobs though, goes straight out the window. It's fair to say though, you'll find a lot more noobs playing diplos, than strategy.

Edited 11/16/2015 18:09:43
An observation on strategic & diplo clans: 11/16/2015 18:20:50


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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Ox sums it up well. On most of my games i only invite a squad of 20-40 people I like playing with and the worst that happens is someone showing up drunk during a turn or two. :P
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