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Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 03:50:10


The Mad Japanese
Level 51
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What if the Crusades never happened?
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 04:57:28


Empire of Kilos
Level 32
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Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 06:25:24


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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I mean with the least offense but I do say bluntly:

Why do you ask so many dumb, often America-centric frains?
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 06:28:23


Eklipse
Level 57
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Asking about the Crusades is America centric?

Rather odd statement since the U.S didn't exist at the time...
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 06:36:23


Жұқтыру
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I did say often. His last one, "Could the Confederacy won the Civil War" was quite.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 14:35:59


The Man Who'd Buy Spain
Level 29
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If the Crusades never happened, that would mean the Jihads would have went further than they actually did, and we'd all be Muslims.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 14:38:02


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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I don't think we'd all be Muslims. But I think that Spain, south France and Austria would all be conquered by the Jihads, and remain Muslim till this day. Also, the city of Cordoba, and other Spanish cities under Muslim rule, would flourish like they did, for much longer.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 15:39:30


OnlyThePie
Level 53
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The Crusades had little effect on the Muslims. They didn't really change Muslim society at all, they were just a pestering disturbance, like a fly buzzing in your ear. Muslim incursions into Europe were stopped by the victory at Tours in 732, nearly 300 years before the Crusades. The Islamic Caliphates had other concerns in India, Africa, Central Asia, and within their own empires.

What WOULD have been bad would be the fact that IRL, the Crusades transferred lots of Islamic cultural ideas and technological advancement to Western Europe, ushering on the Reniassance. Without the Crusades, West Europe would have sat in a dark age for a lot longer, and the world could have even possibly faced Easternization rather than Westernization. A Middle ages that lasted more than the 700 years it already did would have been catastrophic for Europe as we know it today.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 21:02:21


Genghis 
Level 54
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The European "renaissance" didn't do anything. Maybe the scientific revolution, definitely the Bubonic Plague, but the Renaissance was of no importance. Just some fancy art.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 22:11:29


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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This question is too vague because we would have to reinterpret the Renaissance as well (since the Crusades had a direct effect on that), which means everything post-1450s would be absolutely different. Also would this mean that Constantinople would not have fallen in 1453 (I believe) to the Ottomans?

@Genghis - the Renaissance shaped modern Europe and most of the philosophical origins of the Western World. Humanism was founded during the Renaissance and the first inklings of the corruption of the catholic church that led to the Protestant schism was shaped by the wars of Italy during the 1400s and 1500s. So you can't say the Renaissance was just "some fancy art". That's factually incorrect.

Edited 11/8/2015 22:12:49
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 22:39:39


The Man Who'd Buy Spain
Level 29
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Bro, the Renaissance is the reason all the depictions of Jesus are white.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 22:44:01


Belgian Gentleman 
Level 56
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White jesus already existed during the Roman Empire and Byzantines.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 23:11:39


berdan131
Level 56
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I have more interesting question.

What if there were no Jews?









(*not antisemitic, just think :) )

Edited 11/8/2015 23:11:52
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 23:14:53


Belgian Gentleman 
Level 56
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World war 2 would have never happened then and there would be no global banking without Jews.

Edited 11/8/2015 23:16:51
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/8/2015 23:22:39


Genghis 
Level 54
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No, all the things you just said were occurrences that happened side-by-side with the Renaissance. They did not cause the Renaissance or vice versa.

The changes in thought? That is actually the Scientific Revolution. Humanism? Still Scientific Revolution. Corruption of church and protestants? Caused by humanism caused by scientific revolution.

Modern Europe was shaped by wars, not artwork.

The wars of Italy were a byproduct of the many city-states that sprawled the peninsula as well as foreign politicking in the region (such as France and Byzantium), not because of the Sistine Chapel.

Care to bring up any more examples?

At most, the European Renaissance took the aristocrats of Europe, and showed them some classical antiquity artwork for them to copy+paste and make them feel cultured. If you need this hardcore explained to you, go to a Crash Course World History for it.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/9/2015 00:23:54


Vormulak
Level 53
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OYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY VEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. But berdan the world would be a more peaceful place , a safer place and a less corrupt place. Also onlythepie nice try sand person. The arabs did very few things of importance and the italians were far more technologically advanced. Also the dark age is a lie lots of technological advances occurred during the supposed dark age and no historian takes it seriously, just fedora tipping atheists. Pic related is a band of sand people warriors approx 900 A.D.

Edited 11/9/2015 00:33:45
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/9/2015 00:57:58


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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genghis you have to ask yourself what was the effect of the revival of classical antiquity? This is the underlying philosophical phenomenon of the renaissance, which is why literally ANY "Crash Course World History" will tell you that the Renaissance was the actual cause behind the rise in humanism, the scientific revolution, and the beginnings of the Protestant revolution (although I admit that these are more indirect effects).

Here is a list of direct effects of the Renaissance (these are not by-the-by things and are all vitally important so this era should not be thrown to the side as just useless art): http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Renn.html

1. New Conceptions of Life and the World
2. Restored the Broken Unity of History
3. Aided the Development of Vernacular Literature
4. Called into Existence the Science of Archaeology and Historical Criticism
5. Gave an impulse to Religious Reform
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/9/2015 05:57:16


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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What WOULD have been bad would be the fact that IRL, the Crusades transferred lots of Islamic cultural ideas and technological advancement to Western Europe, ushering on the Reniassance. Without the Crusades, West Europe would have sat in a dark age for a lot longer, and the world could have even possibly faced Easternization rather than Westernization. A Middle ages that lasted more than the 700 years it already did would have been catastrophic for Europe as we know it today.


Careful, you'll get torn apart by those who insist that everyone in the Middle East is a suicidial faqir, and have been since existence of the Middle East.

genghis you have to ask yourself what was the effect of the revival of classical antiquity? This is the underlying philosophical phenomenon of the renaissance, which is why literally ANY "Crash Course World History" will tell you that the Renaissance was the actual cause behind the rise in humanism, the scientific revolution, and the beginnings of the Protestant revolution (although I admit that these are more indirect effects).


What does it do outside west Europe?

And by the way, protestantism does not really have anything to do with this. Just a monk making a new sect.

1. New Conceptions of Life and the World
2. Restored the Broken Unity of History
3. Aided the Development of Vernacular Literature
4. Called into Existence the Science of Archaeology and Historical Criticism
5. Gave an impulse to Religious Reform


Your 5 points here are also only in West Europe and even then not significant.
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/9/2015 06:26:48

SVY
Level 47
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Europe would have still been Christian for the most part. The Muslim advance wasn't stopped by the victory at Tours; their wave of expansion had naturally come to a standstill a thousand miles from Arabia where it originated. That victory was just a symptom of Islam's exhaustion. If they had won at Tours, they would have soon been defeated in another battle.

OnlythePie is completely right. The Renaissance was triggered by the importation of Arab, Greek, Latin and Aramaic scientific texts from the Muslim kingdoms which was caused by the contact in the Crusades. Sugar would never have been introduced to Europe if not for the Crusades. Nor would have concentric castles and a ton of other technology and foodstuffs.

The Muslims regarded the Crusaders as animals with only the virtues of courage and valour in battle. Who's read A Song of Ice and Fire? Well, imagine if the uncultured and backward hordes of Westeros arrived at Qarth (the greatest city). That was what the Crusaders were when they arrived in Palestine.

Moorish Spain and its great cities would still have fallen to the Christians but the Industrial Revolution would have taken longer to occur.

Edited 11/9/2015 16:46:37
Alternate History: Crusades: 11/9/2015 13:57:37


Vormulak
Level 53
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lies
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