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A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 21:54:04


OnlyThePie
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Why do we care so much about the choices of others? Why do we give a crap if somebody is homosexual, or one religion or another, or wants or does not want to abort a child, or is left or right, or whatever. Why do we feel the need to push our opinions on others if there's no definite right answer to the question? It seems that it's "My way or the highway-I mean it's my way or I'll nag and be annoying and generally insult you until you change your mind" and this incessant nagging only makes people want to keep their way more.

Science, real science, is one of the rare fields where this doesn't happen. Because it can all be proven, and if you have a good point, other scientists will actually CHANGE THEIR MINDS.

Why can't we all either shut up and stop bugging each other, or accept valid arguments.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 21:59:38


Eklipse
Level 57
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Because there needs to be a single moral code for society to function. This is the reason we have laws. The problems stem when people have opposing views about what is moral and what isn't. If everyone always kept silent on matters that didn't directly involve them at the time a lot of horrible practices would never have been changed, and many bad things that didn't happen would of happened.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 22:08:32


Belgian Gentleman 
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Why do we feel the need to push our opinions on others if there's no definite right answer to the question?

Well that's very hypocrite, did you create this thread?
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 22:11:43


SirSalty
Level 49
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What is drugs
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 22:21:35


Luna {TJC}
Level 56
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Its just an natural your with us or against us mentality really. Nothing wrong with that a bit more unity between people would be nice sometime but hayhoo.

Also impartiality is hard some opinion become absolutely truth to yourself after a while whether they are wrong or not.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 22:54:47


Imperator
Level 53
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Often People in general don't feel the need to push their opinions onto everyone else, at least where I live. The only place I've experienced the situation you've described is on the internet, but in real life people tend to be kinder and get along a lot better.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 23:03:44

wct
Level 56
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Two reasons, one general, one specific:
1) General: Because lots of people believe stupid shit, and their beliefs influence their actions, and their actions affect the lives of other people.
2) Specific: Because people who believe stupid shit also vote.

Edited 10/19/2015 23:04:35
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 23:24:33


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Do you support murder? Murderers do, why do folk impose their opinions into law about whether murder is right or not?
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 23:31:12


SirSalty
Level 49
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Because valid arguments are viewed differently to different people. That's like the USA going we believe our war with Iraq was justified, NATO agrees but Russia doesn't. It's human perception on what is right and what is wrong.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 23:35:35


Hostile
Level 58
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What is tolerance ?

Is a culture superior to another ?





Read about tolerance and its paradoxes. :)

-----------------

Also questions about belief. What are the differences between truth and beliefs.




Two parts to this problem. Please answer one of them. Unless the main question is more complex.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 23:39:03


Benjamin628 
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Thats some deep stuff Eklipse.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/19/2015 23:40:03


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Because valid arguments are viewed differently to different people. That's like the USA going we believe our war with Iraq was justified, NATO agrees but Russia doesn't. It's human perception on what is right and what is wrong.


That's just what each country tunes their propaganda to - it's not human perception. An average Russian exposed to enough American propaganda will support America, and in reverse.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 01:49:17


OnlyThePie
Level 53
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I wasn't saying we should never voice our opinions. I don't understand why we can't keep stupid shit to ourselves. Things that involve murder, violence, opression, those are the things we DO need to speak out against. But gay rights? Religion? Who gives a shit if John down the street is a practicing pastafarian? Who cares if Laura from accounting is a Lesbian? How does that affect you? Would changing that affect your lifestyle in any way?

For example, slavery. Maybe you don't own any slaves. But if you decided it was wrong, and got it changed, that would affect you by changing the economy. But if you are the deciding factor in creating a law that stops Paul from getting his wife's baby aborted, does that really change your life? Or the other way around. If you are the deciding factor in allowing abortion, does that change other people's lives for the worse somehow?

What is tolerance ?

Is a culture superior to another ?


Tolerance is the ability to respect another person's ideas, even when they don't agree with yours. Something a lot of people don't seem to have much of. No culture is superior to another.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 01:53:38


Eklipse
Level 57
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But if you are the deciding factor in creating a law that stops Paul from getting his wife's baby aborted, does that really change your life?

You might be able to make that stick for things like gay marriage, but not for abortion. No-one dies from gay marriage. But countless unborn children are killed due to abortion. Abortion results in the destruction of human life, that's something people have every right to stand up against.

I wouldn't stand by and watch someone be murdered, even if their death wouldn't impact me. In the same way, I'm not going to be silent about unborn children being killed, even though I'm not personally affected.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 01:56:56


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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hings that involve murder, violence, opression, those are the things we DO need to speak out against. But gay rights? Religion? Who gives a shit if John down the street is a practicing pastafarian?


So what determines what we "DO need to speak out against" and what doesn't? "Who gives a shit" as long as you're not murdered, "who gives a shit" as long as you're not hurt? "Who gives a shit" as long as you're not stolen from?

Slavery's abolition didn't affect many folk, since they didn't really have slaves in Russia in the first place. But it was still abolished; in truth, one of the earlier countries to. "Who gives a shit" as long as you're not a slave?
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 02:18:43


OnlyThePie
Level 53
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@Eklipse: It's just an example. I have no real opinion on the matter.

@X: Right and wrong actions that damage someone's life matter. "Right" and "Wrong" about HOW somebody LIVES their life do not. A murder might damage somebody's life. Getting married to somebody of the same gender doesn't. Being a Christian doesn't. For that matter, owning a gun doesn't(until that gun is used in an unsafe manner). So people need to understand that just because they disagree, doesn't mean they have a right to put down, scream at, and fight with people to force them to agree.

The abolition of slavery, especially in countries largely dependent on it for sections of their economy, like America, radically altered the economic playing field. That was one of the main reasons the South didn't want to abolish it.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 02:38:44


Жұқтыру
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Right and wrong actions that damage someone's life matter. "Right" and "Wrong" about HOW somebody LIVES their life do not. A murder might damage somebody's life. Getting married to somebody of the same gender doesn't. Being a Christian doesn't. For that matter, owning a gun doesn't(until that gun is used in an unsafe manner).


So does slavery damage somebody's life? Suicide is just a more extreme form of damaging your life than being gay. Let's say slavery is instituted, but there are severe restrictions on how you can punish a slave. A slave can live their limited life, as a sexually-mentally disabled can live their limited liked life.

It's just an example. I have no real opinion on the matter.

So people need to understand that just because they disagree, doesn't mean they have a right to put down, scream at, and fight with people to force them to agree.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 03:59:19

wct
Level 56
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I wasn't saying we should never voice our opinions. I don't understand why we can't keep stupid shit to ourselves. Things that involve murder, violence, opression, those are the things we DO need to speak out against. But gay rights? Religion? Who gives a shit if John down the street is a practicing pastafarian? Who cares if Laura from accounting is a Lesbian? How does that affect you? Would changing that affect your lifestyle in any way?

For example, slavery. Maybe you don't own any slaves. But if you decided it was wrong, and got it changed, that would affect you by changing the economy. But if you are the deciding factor in creating a law that stops Paul from getting his wife's baby aborted, does that really change your life? Or the other way around. If you are the deciding factor in allowing abortion, does that change other people's lives for the worse somehow?


Back to reason #1: Lots of people believe stupid shit, and their beliefs influence their actions, and their actions affect the lives of other people.

Unfortunately, one of the 'stupid shit' things many people believe is that they should try to change society so to impose their stupid shit beliefs on everyone else. Because they believe this, this influences their actions, and they actually try to follow through and get society changed to enforce their stupid shit on others. This obviously affects the lives of other people.

And, again unfortunately, another thing they often believe (almost without fail) is that their stupid shit beliefs aren't actually stupid nor shitty.

E.g. the vast majority against abortion are that way because they are religious and have a belief in a soul and an afterlife. Lots of stupid shit follows from those beliefs (esp. when combined with the stupid shit in 'holy' books). Saving the imaginary souls of fetuses from an imaginary afterlife of eternal torment is more important to them than actual human suffering in this real world. In fact, some of them think this is the most important thing they can possibly do.

The 'stupid' and 'shit' parts of 'stupid shit beliefs' can get pretty damn stupid and pretty damn shitty. Take 9/11 as a prime example. But it's not just religion. There are lots and lots of stupid shit beliefs around. It's not hard to find countless examples.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 04:06:14

wct
Level 56
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Here's a generic question that will probably piss off a lot of people: Why are people so careless about the stupid shit they allow themselves to believe and continue believing? Why are they so afraid to face actual reality? Why can't they admit to themselves and to others a) when they don't actually know what they pretend to know, b) when they were wrong about what they thought they knew?
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 04:23:06


Eklipse
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So what do we know about wct?

He's bigoted against the religious.

He's obsessed with the words "stupid" and "Shit". He apparently doesn't know any other descriptors.

He thinks it's okay for his views to be pushed through law but not the views of others.

He's a very angry person who has to spend 90% of his posts calling any view different than his own "stupid shit".
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 04:48:59

wct
Level 56
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So what do we know about wct?

He's bigoted against the religious.

He's obsessed with the words "stupid" and "Shit". He apparently doesn't know any other descriptors.

He thinks it's okay for his views to be pushed through law but not the views of others.

He's a very angry person who has to spend 90% of his posts calling any view different than his own "stupid shit".

And to illustrate one of my points, the above is a perfect example of someone being unable to "admit to themselves and to others a) when they don't actually know what they pretend to know".

To put it bluntly, you don't know any of those things you claim to know. (If you really think that you *know* these things, I'd be interested to hear *how* you think you know them.) Hopefully you'll come around to be able to admit that some time in the near future, but I won't be holding my breath. As I said earlier, many people think that "their stupid shit beliefs aren't actually stupid nor shitty." From my POV, the odds are not in your favour. But hey, I'd much prefer to be wrong.
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 04:57:29


Eklipse
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I didn't claim to know anything.

Everything I said can easily be inferred by your previous rant where you showed nothing but disdain for those with religious views and seemed to imply you're somehow superior.

Don't make offensive rants against large groups if you can't take being called out on it. :)
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 05:12:41


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Shut up, Eklipse, the odds are not in your favour. :)
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 05:46:50

wct
Level 56
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Eklipse 10/20/2015 00:57:29: I didn't claim to know anything.

Eklipse 10/20/2015 00:23:06: So what do we know about wct? He's ... <blah blah blah>

Your words contradict you.

Everything I said can easily be inferred ...

Not logically, nor probabilistically. If you think you *can* infer your claims, I'd be interested to see your argument for *how* you make that inference.

Don't make offensive rants against large groups if you can't take being called out on it.

a) Why not?, b) Ever heard of free speech? c) Why should I care if some people get offended by my comments? Do you care if your comments offend me? d) What makes you think I "can't take being called out on it"? [Edited to add: e) Why should my comments be offensive to people? I didn't actually say anything that controversial about them. You do agree that lots of people believe stupid shit, don't you? I'd think it should be pretty obvious.]

Xapy: ;-J

Edited 10/20/2015 06:08:50
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 05:50:05


Blank
Level 36
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I only care about the choices of others if their choices affect me.

Also, it's fun
A Generic Question that will probably anger people: 10/20/2015 06:13:21


Thomas 633
Level 56
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The irony that he is forcing his opinion about not caring about other opinions on us.
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