as fizzer agreed in his livestream, custom scenario games should be flagged as "practice"

there's no downside to it

Great! It was so laggy last time and I could hardly hear his response.

This thread is still good to remind him to take those issues seriously. I hope he could fix it as soon as possible. :-)

inquisitor you are great. i fully support you for the good of the game. Keep up the good work .... one day it will be noticed at a higher level and hopefully resolved.

Thanks a lot. :-D

I meant if fizzer made a way to tell if a game was rigged or not how would it work?

He wouldn't, just make all custom scenario practise, even if they are or aren't rigged.

You are likening the 2, when in reality they are completely different.

I'm not sure why you are so concerned about the example. To clarify I only use this example to illustrate the point that it does not make the wrongdoer right because the victim is not clever enough. This example is never the main point. I never say both cases are 90% similar, are equally serious blah blah blah...

Also all you need to do is report the 2 accounts on their profiles and then be done with it (they are now banned) I do not see much of a reason to make a thread about it. However that isn't to say I'm not grateful for him being found out and eventually banned.

Well but you missed out the very reason why they get banned - I made a thread about it. ;-)
(OK I will use an example to explain again, although you will probably argue about the subtlety again)

If you just send email to the government, the government is going to ignore you. But if you organize a demonstration with thousands of people protesting on the street, it is more likely the government will respond and take action.
(yep I know a game site is not the same as the government, but I hope you get the points)

Having said that, I do not mean to blame the developer. I realize it is a one-man job. He must be very busy.

Report is not a good solution. Why?

1. Rigged games keep showing up every day. I'm much much much much much far from catching all of them.
2. I need to spend time to police the open games. I'm actually wasting time to scan each open game, when I'm not actually looking for a new game to join. I don't think I will do it continuously. Personally it does not affect or bother me. I'm good enough not to fall for them. I'm still doing this solely for the good of the game/community.
3. It takes time to write a report (more than you might expect).
4. It takes time for the developer to read and understand the report, and take action. It is understandable the developer must understand the case fully before taking an action.
5. Therefore many will be left unprocessed since the developer is busy.

Why is a fix better?

1. It takes a few lines of codes to implement. (I could imagine it is just a basic if statement syntax)
2. The effort is one-time.
3. Those rigged games (with custom scenarios) will be gone once and for all.
4. No more time have to be wasted on them. So good!
5. As always, prevention is better than cure. ;-)

lol more dumbasses too lazy to check settings. Again they got what was coming to them well done cheater very subtle.

Not really. It is a bit hard to see through the tricks. Not everyone understands every aspect of the game.

It will be very sad if custom scenarios become a byword for cheating, and people's first reaction is to avoid them like plague. We'd better do something before custom scenarios get rotten so badly.

Don't waste your own time - people who join or see a rigged game should report the creator.
For report just link the game and say this is a custom scenario with an unfair distribution.
Fizzer reads all reports - he wouldn't leave them unprocessed just because he is busy.

I'm not against making them practice games - I am for that.

Fizzer's AMA, in case you missed it :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkuLbfKGa5s

1. Cheaters' especially those who rigg games ARE punished. They often loose points + get a warning. Repeated offense eventually leads to a suspension. Only a suspension is visible to the public.
2. Players don't get banned from someone making a thread, please report them and INCLUDE EVIDENCE! (reporting them from in-game gives the game link,)
3. ^Don't write to much in the report. Simply Rigging games+ link is fine.
4. Moderators review the report, Fizzer then reviews the reports were a mod believes action is needed.
5. ^ I don't think Fizzer use to much time on the reports himself, but there may be some delay in the processing of a report, due to the 2-step system. Right now however, all reports are processed in a timely manner.



As for the fix, they will just find another way to rig the games. (Overridden, hard to find bonuses + NLC, boot time trix, negative sanction etc. Afraid it doesn't solve the core problem, players not checking/understanding settings.)

Edited 9/29/2015 18:51:32

I meant if fizzer made a way to tell if a game was rigged or not how would it work?

No need. Games with custom scenario are highly exploitable in nature, and those games are not going to be fair. Even if the creator does not intend to cheat, it is likely the custom scenario is not well designed so not everyone has an equal chance of winning. Some spots are potentially better than others.

It is just like the cases in games with uneven teams and AI. Those games are not fair and exploitable in nature, so all of those games must be set as practice.

IDC about the fact he's rigging games. The thing I'm steamed about is that he's trying to become Supreme leader! Gen.Numbnuts in the only Supreme Leader of Warlight!

Oh I see. It would be great if they send a reply after they processed a report, a general message like the following is good enough:
"Thank you for your report. Your report is read and a proper action is taken."

One reason why I feel some reports are left unprocessed is because I see cheaters who have been reported are still cheating in the same way. Perhaps they are just bold enough to ignore the warning.

Sure one fix is not going to solve all problems, but at least it solves a good portion of them. After all custom scenarios should be set as practice anyway, not just for the rigged game issues.

Afraid it doesn't solve the core problem, players not checking/understanding settings.

lol more dumbasses too lazy to check settings.

I keep seeing this logic show up in this thread. Under said logic, any games made with uneven teams or with AIs should not be considered by Warlight to be practice games.
Therefore it only makes sense to me that games with custom scenarios should be flagged as practice.

Afraid it doesn't solve the core problem, players not checking/understanding settings.

I don't know when you all started playing, but ther has and always will be a way to rig the game. Even if you put a flag on custom scenario. In fact it was done even before levels/points were added. Here are a few easy way to rig a game.

1. MA with players that are to low level to create a game on it.
2. Negative Sanc.
3. Overridden Bonuses
4. NLC + speedpick the only bonus (arguably this is a "skill" game, since fastest/best picker wins)
5. Gift negative bonus to opponent first turn + no cards gaine or allowed to be unused
6. Odd boot times, (1 min Direct, 8 hours Real Time)
7. Custom Scenario.
8. A map with very odd bonuses that are hard to spot (Strategic resources etc. surprisingly many maps have this)
9. Overridden kill rates.
10. Luck setting

During his stream Fizzer talked about rigged coin games (what is allowed to be pure skill), and the restriction opposed on them. Is this the kind of restriction you want for games in order to give you points?

Uneven teams should be practice games, but i don't necessarily think this should be applied to games with AI's. (2 human v. 1 human + 1 AI is uneven team is uneven in this defenition)

Edited 9/30/2015 00:30:00

Afraid it doesn't solve the core problem, players not checking/understanding settings.

Yes I know. In fact no single fix is going to solve all problems. But what do you think about this fix? Is it a good solution to prevent any rigged games which exploit custom scenarios?

1. MA with players that are to low level to create a game on it.
2. Negative Sanc.
3. Overridden Bonuses
4. NLC + speedpick the only bonus (arguably this is a "skill" game, since fastest/best picker wins)
5. Gift negative bonus to opponent first turn + no cards gaine or allowed to be unused
6. Odd boot times, (1 min Direct, 8 hours Real Time)
7. Custom Scenario.
8. A map with very odd bonuses that are hard to spot (Strategic resources etc. surprisingly many maps have this)
9. Overridden kill rates.
10. Luck setting

I fail to see why most of them can be classified as rigged games. Let's define what a rigged game is for the purpose of this discussion. A game is rigged when it gives someone (usually the host) an inherent advantage over others by design.

So how multi-attack, negative sanction, speed picks, gift negative bonus, overridden kill rates, luck setting alone are rigged?

As to 6, you can't set 1 min in a multi-day game. You can't set 8 hours in real time game. The system will show the shortest boot time first. People will see the boot time as 1 min, not 8 hours, even if it is accepted.

During his stream Fizzer talked about rigged coin games (what is allowed to be pure skill), and the restriction opposed on them. Is this the kind of restriction you want for games in order to give you points?

Yes sort of. But coin games must be pure skill for legal reasons. A ranked game can involve luck.

If you want to earn points, the game must be fair to everyone who joined. In other words, no one can have any inherent advantage over others in the game by design.

Uneven teams should be practice games, but i don't necessarily think this should be applied to games with AI's. (2 human v. 1 human + 1 AI is uneven team is uneven in this defenition)

Yep we may fine-tune the rule, so it can be ranked if both/all sides of teams have the same number of AIs (e.g. 1 human + 1 AI vs 1 human + 1 AI). But you need to consider how many points are awarded when AI is involved.

Edited 9/30/2015 04:12:56

oh look another one
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9546482
The guy is just going to keep making accounts until one of them gets through
Really the only reason to do this is you want to get to a high level quickly and ALSO want good stats

Seriously people?

Edited 9/30/2015 04:18:05

crazypotato

supports Bernie Sanders....and rigs games to win.

This is a lol.

They shouldn't be practice

Edited 9/30/2015 07:09:26

I don't give a single fork if one gets to level 1000 in one game. Doesn't make him a better player. So what? Envy those perfect stats? Pfff.

There are so good, fair and fun to play custom scenarios. Would be a shame if those were always only practice.

There are so good, fair and fun to play custom scenarios. Would be a shame if those were always only practice.

You need to show us some links, so we can discuss further.

You may have missed another point - even if the creator does not intend to cheat, it is likely the custom scenario is not well designed so not everyone has an equal chance of winning. Some spots are potentially better than others.

Not only custom scenarios which give someone a guaranteed win are unfair. There are many more. It is very often using custom scenarios will make the game unbalanced, and some player in some spot is at a (dis)advantage.

If someone come up to say I made a game with 3 humans vs 1 human, but it is really good and fun to play, since I tried to match 3 weak players against one strong player. The game is "balanced and fair" IMO so all games with uneven teams should be ranked in future. What do you think?

I know crazy potato, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of person to rig a game...
is it possible that he got hacked, or something like an impostor?

Edited 10/2/2015 04:00:13

@inquistor,

The overall discussion can be about what should and should not award points. But, in my humble opinion, the Purpose of points is to reward activity- all kinds of activity. Therefore too many restriction hurts WL, for instance diplo and rp players, who play with none official rules may not get points for their activity. Although no one wants rigged games, I believe that it is more important to reward as many as possible of the games on WL, and therefore I am principle against restrictions for what can give points.