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A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 07:45:49

inquisitor
Level 56
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I have seen a player called ky using a dirty trick to cheat wins. Here is how he did.

Type: Real time
Boot time: 1 min
Automatically start game once all players join: No

The trick was the host deliberately delayed the start by 20-30 minutes. He was waiting until (he expected) all players didn't pay attention to it. Then he started the game all of a sudden.

Since the system does not refresh immediately, together with the loading time and server issues/delays, you probably end up with less than half of time (instead of full 60 seconds) when the game is loaded on your computer. At that time I was browsing in another tab. I heard the sound suddenly and I clicked to switch tab immediately. Still I got only 20 something seconds left. You could imagine what happened to others who didn't realize it in time.

Funny that the host set it as direct boot. He could have just waited for others since it is his fault for not starting a game at proper time, but he booted people happily once the time was up. I felt bad for people getting a boot record when it was not their faults.

Anyway I managed to survive and won. Guess what? He blacklisted me. How dirty! All evidence made it so clear he just wanted to cheat his way to win.

The game
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9466831

The player ky
https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=5046021910

Edited 9/20/2015 10:57:35
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 07:49:21

inquisitor
Level 56
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A suggestion for fixing this exploit

This only applies to real time games. I would suggest the game must start within a specific period (let's say 3 mins) after all seats are filled up. Otherwise the game will be cancelled automatically.

It is a real time game after all. The system should not let the host delay start unreasonably.

Is it a good fix? What do you think?

Edited 9/19/2015 03:24:16
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 08:21:32


ʧillynamenace
Level 57
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it is a good fix. +1.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 08:51:28


Dublin Warrior 
Level 49
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+1.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 09:02:26

huddyj
Level 61
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I think a better fix would be to make all real time games start automatically. So just disable the option to turn off auto start.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 09:14:36


Dublin Warrior 
Level 49
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I can't imagine a legit reason for having a 1 minute boot time in the first place,

but then, I'm slow, and I don't trust my internet or my computer, or my utility company that much. :P
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 10:33:07


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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1 min boot is good on some maps, sometimes when it's a simple game I start getting bored if people haven't done their turns after 30 seconds... But on Kongregate we only get the option of 3min auto boot, so you got used to playing fast.

I would suggest just not joining these types of game if you're not "ready to play" and when you're deciding to browse elsewhere, etc then just leave the game, that's generally how I do it.

I would suggest that the solutions you have all provided are not good ones, they restrict possibilities, and are still possible to counter, for something that could simply be avoided by not joining the game.

And in the end, does it really matter? Wins and stats don't really count for much, at least not that I can tell. Playing a real game with the player would soon show you his real skill level anyway.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 15:46:39

inquisitor
Level 56
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I think a better fix would be to make all real time games start automatically. So just disable the option to turn off auto start.


Yes it is also a good idea and can be implemented quickly with little coding.

Personally I would like to receive a sound notification when all seats are filled up, and give some seconds for people to get ready before the game starts. I think it is especially helpful for a game which does not refresh every second. The flow will be like this.

[sound notification]
"The game will starts in XX seconds."
[countdown timer shows up]
[when time is up] Start

But I know it involves some coding so it is not going to happen any time soon.

Edited 9/17/2015 15:49:43
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 16:42:35


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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You can't make all RT games start automatically. What if you invite a player and they decline? Then a team is short handed. It would need to require that all seats are filled.

Also, what if you set up a 3v3 with friends and 1 person says they will be back in a a few minutes? If you auto start, that means they will get booted needlessly.

IMO, pay attention to what you join. Why would someone join a 1 minute boot game without auto start then walk away? Gotta read the settings. Don't join them.

Sure, it is shady, but gotta blame yourself too.

Edited 9/17/2015 16:45:07
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 16:46:20


Riveath
Level 59
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How do you know who blacklists you? Is there something I missed?
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 16:50:57


ps 
Level 60
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read settings before you join matches
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 17:06:10


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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@Death: If you try and friend them it doesn't work if they have Blacklisted you.

@inquisitor: +1 for sound notification when all seats are filled up, this would be super handy.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 17:35:58

MrHymen
Level 56
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Isn't this a Lottery game?
Lottery games are for the scummy, just avoid them.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 17:56:45


Riveath
Level 59
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@Fleece I already knew this, but I thought there might be a list of people who blacklisted you.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 21:02:21


knyte 
Level 58
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Nowhere near as dirty or clever as pure-skill lotteries.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 22:15:19


Ameter
Level 60
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Sure, read the settings and all that... but also blacklist the player. Sooner or later he'll find himself blacklisted by everyone and unable to play
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 22:20:19


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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FK has a dirty local deployment scenario. Usually he is nice enough just to try it out and VTE though.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/17/2015 22:46:14

Renegade
Level 59
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LOL, I clicked on the game expecting to see a good game and it was lotto :P Yea I just avoid lottos all together.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/18/2015 00:03:14


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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Inquisitor needs those levels ;)
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/18/2015 01:25:37


Gojirra
Level 56
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@ChrisCMU +1
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/18/2015 04:24:33


Dr. Stupid 
Level 58
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Boy that ky sure is a slippery player.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/18/2015 09:49:09


Dublin Warrior 
Level 49
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Even despite my bad luck in other lotteries,

Pirate vs. Ninja, the Tournament:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=14632


and a separate Pirate vs. Ninja game:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9032191

all worked out quite well for a newbie trying to level up to the important stuff.

I was very grateful to all who participated, especially the higher level players who were willing to play for not much reward for themselves, but which helped me a great deal.

I hope to run it for others' benefit someday, but atm, my win ratio stinks to high heaven, and my level isn't all that high to offer up to others, so that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/18/2015 14:54:50

inquisitor
Level 56
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I can't imagine a legit reason for having a 1 minute boot time in the first place,

but then, I'm slow, and I don't trust my internet or my computer, or my utility company that much. :P


I rarely see a game having 1 minute boot time myself. Nearly always it is at least 2 minutes.

In fact Warlight is not good for very fast pace games due to its limitations.
I have broadband but I lost nearly 40 seconds even I immediately switched after I heard the game starting sound.
I would say it is a bad idea to set it at 1 min.

What about others? How often do you see a game with 1 min boot time?
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/18/2015 15:51:02


berdan131
Level 56
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You don't have to join a game if you don't like the settings

Good settings is a personal thing

Edited 9/18/2015 15:51:32
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/19/2015 03:22:49

inquisitor
Level 56
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You don't have to join a game if you don't like the settings


Yes I know. I won't join in future (well I couldn't anyway. He has blacklisted me because I won. LOL)

After all personal preference has nothing to do with this thread.
I reported an exploit, and I hope it to be fixed soon. That's the main point of this thread.

Edited 9/19/2015 03:25:09
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/20/2015 10:46:07


Nezi
Level 13
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geeeeeeeeeeeee
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/21/2015 02:05:37

inquisitor
Level 56
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1 min boot is good on some maps, sometimes when it's a simple game I start getting bored if people haven't done their turns after 30 seconds... But on Kongregate we only get the option of 3min auto boot, so you got used to playing fast.


1 min boot is not good due to technical limitations of this game. Otherwise I think it is ok. I lost nearly 40 seconds in my case. I don't want people to get booted unexpectedly because of such issues.

And as far as my experience goes, people won't just drag along if the map is really simple enough. They will still play fast. They won't all suddenly make moves every 3 mins just because you give 3 mins instead of 1.

And in the end, does it really matter? Wins and stats don't really count for much, at least not that I can tell. Playing a real game with the player would soon show you his real skill level anyway.


I agree. Fun is the most important. Wins, points, levels are not. But not all people think like you and me. That's why we keep seeing those games and cheaters again and again.

I saw rigged games again yesterday. The host set up fake lottery games with custom scenarios to lure careless people into joining:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9485197
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9485561

It is sad these games are ranked too. That means they have the incentive to set up these shoddy games again and again.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/22/2015 14:39:54

inquisitor
Level 56
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What if you invite a player and they decline? Then a team is short handed. It would need to require that all seats are filled.


It could change into an open seat in this case.

But how could you arrange a real-time game if you don't even know whether the people you target to invite will accept or be online at that time?

what if you set up a 3v3 with friends and 1 person says they will be back in a a few minutes?


Click join when you are ready.

Also in my original proposal, I suggest the game has to start within a specific period, so if you don't want the game to start automatically once filled. Check that option, but you can't just delay like half a hour since there is a max limit. Really the host should not create a real time game if he has to be away for so long.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/23/2015 04:47:04

inquisitor
Level 56
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Isn't this a Lottery game?


Not really. It is not a lottery game that most refer to when they are talking about lottery (that is the luck-based one). Rather it is one kind of speed games which uses a lottery map. You have to commit orders as quick as possible once you load the game. The fastest will get the winning spot.
A dirty way to cheat wins: 9/23/2015 07:36:15

inquisitor
Level 56
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@inquisitor: +1 for sound notification when all seats are filled up, this would be super handy.


And it is very easy to implement. Just add a code to play a sound after the event of all seats filling up.
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