<< Back to General Forum   Search

Posts 1 - 30 of 87   1  2  3  Next >>   
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/1/2015 05:43:11

huddyj
Level 61
Report
Hi everyone, this is the official thread for season 1 of the Small Earth 1v1 Promotion/Relegation League.

This season is made up of 4 groups. Groups A & B each consist of 10 players. Qualifying Groups 1 & 2 have 11 players.

How the promotion/relegation will work at end of season:

Group A:
Top 5 stay in Group A. 6th-8th to Group B. 9th-10th to Group C.

Group B:
Top 3 promote to Group A. 4th-6th stay in Group B. 7th-8th to Group C. 9th-10th to Group D.

Qualifying Group 1 & Qualifying Group 2:
1st promotes to Group A. 2nd-3rd promote to Group B. 4th-6th to Group C. 7th-10th to Group D. 11th relegates to Group E (Expansion Group)


Tournament Links for Season 1 with player lists:

Group A https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15283
Dacian Novac
huddyj
Lampião
Pink
USA Biches
Gibs
TWOLKER
Slats
Diplomatic Immunity
PanagiotisTheGreekFreak

Group B https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15284
alpha83
boorzuur
DanetDuo
Kevin Turner
slydog384
The best
Pantelas
mslasm
Philip B'
Auburn Meadow

Qualifying Group 1 https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15285
Des
Don [ Ω ]
Dublin Warrior
Master Bjarke
Platinum
Ryzys
Master Turtle
kirdol
slejer
ARand0mPlayer
ipg

Qualifying Group 2 https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=15286
indibob
Sułtan Kosmitów
Coronel Gavilan
smileyleg {TJC}
Matt431
rocky1
BenSeu
Buns157
lancegal
KingNorbs
Ἀθηνᾶ

Edited 9/7/2015 09:08:42
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/1/2015 06:11:14

huddyj
Level 61
Report
Small Earth 1v1 League Concept and Rules

Please note that these rules and the league concept have been taken with only minor adaptations from the ME promotion/relegation league, and I wish to give credit to those who are running that league for putting them together originally. For those wishing to find out more about that league, here is a link to their latest thread: https://www.warlight.net/Forum/87756-promotionrelegation-league-season-16

Concept

The Small Earth Promotion/Relegation League is a seasonal group of round-robin Warlight tournaments, always on the “small earth” map with coin settings. At the end of each season, the top players of each group are promoted to the next group above. Bottom players are relegated to the next group below. Middle players remain in the same group.

The league is meant to appeal to players who want to see, over the course of several seasons, where their natural level of competition might take them. For new, skilled participants, this means patience in getting to the levels where they will be challenged. Hopefully, that is part of the fun. The idea is to see how quickly you can progress, how long you can stay high, or how long it takes to stop a skid.

Rules

The league is run with a balance of predictability and flexibility. Final decisions are made by the league administrator with an attempt to consider input of league players.

From season 2, the model will typically be to have the top three promote and the bottom three relegate but there are exceptions. Where there is default – a player becoming inactive or asking to bow out of the league – there can be more promotions to fill in the vacancy. Where this happens in several groups there can be a lot of shuffling. The principle, though, is to usually have at least one player from each group relegated. Several retirements mean fewer relegations and more super-promotions to keep the groups filled.

Any player inactive in 50% or more of their games during any tournament is deemed to be out of the league and can only return as a new player in the bottom group.

Placements in a round-robin are determined by number of wins. In the event of a tie, placements are determined by head-to-head results among the tied. Occasionally, there are loops of ties that cannot be resolved by the head-to-head rule. A tie-breaking tournament then takes place unless all the players involved agree to otherwise settle the tie. Where a tie-breaking tournament would delay the league too much, average turn-speed is rewarded to resolve such ties.

Anyone can join the league, members and non-members alike, simply by request in the most recent “Small Earth 1v1 Promotion/Relegation League” forum thread. New players begin in the bottom group or in an expansion group. Promotions from expansion groups depend on numbers within the new groups.

Before the beginning of each season, a summary of the movements will be announced to allow for questions or corrections. The league works most smoothly if those who wish to bow out of it let the administrator know before the new season begins instead of simply declining to play after the groups have been determined and tournaments begun.

Edited 9/7/2015 08:52:02
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/1/2015 06:31:15


his balls. 
Level 60
Report
Put me in please.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/1/2015 06:41:21

huddyj
Level 61
Report
Ok, I'll add you for season 2, but season 1 started this morning, so you missed it.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/1/2015 10:03:06

Philip B'
Level 58
Report
can we see the results of the other groups except the one we are participating?
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/1/2015 10:06:30


Bayern München is the best!
Level 60
Report
We can,just need to open the link.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 05:24:21

mslasm 
Level 59
Report
Given (semi-)random placement of players into groups for season 1, I think it makes sense to promote more players from qualifying groups to groups A and B. I'm in group B and from my tournament games in the group, my games on other maps with some of the players in groups Q1 and Q2, and various ladder rankings for all players, it seems on average players in groups Q1 and Q2 are actually stronger than players in group B - so just for season 1 more promotions would make much sense IMHO.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 05:52:55

huddyj
Level 61
Report
Group B is without doubt the weakest group, as most players in group A & B are from a previous tournament I was in, and I used their results to place them. However, I will leave things the same as I have them, as I'm sure those players who are not skilled will soon relegate, whilst those below who are better will promote. It will even itself out pretty soon.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 11:59:07

huddyj
Level 61
Report
I am open to suggestions from all league players as to a fairer approach for promotion/relegation. I have announced the official policy for season 1 earlier in this thread, but as Group B is generally weaker than the other groups, here is a proposed alteration to the p/r.
(this makes four 8-player groups (A-D) and one 10-player bottom group (E) for next season)

Group A.
Top 5 stay. 6th-8th relegate to Group B. 9th-10th relegate to Group C.

Group B.
Top player promotes to Group A. 2nd-4th stay in Group B. 5th-6th relegate to Group C. 7th-8th to Group D. 9th-10th move to Group E.

Qualifying Groups. (same p/r applies to both groups)
Top player promotes to Group A. 2nd promotes to Group B. 3rd-4th to Group C. 5th-7th Group D. 8th-11th Group E.

Let me know your thoughts on this alteration, and feel free to propose your own promotion/relegation ideas for season 1.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 12:03:58


Bayern München is the best!
Level 60
Report
Lol,really? YOU WANT ME TO RELEGATE.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 12:13:58


Buns157 
Level 68
Report
It seems alot fairer, since most of us were just put randomly. I like the new p/r.

Just curious to know why its went from 10 players to 8 in the majority of the groups? Since the games finish quite fast anyway.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 12:19:08


Bayern München is the best!
Level 60
Report


Edited 9/3/2015 11:59:02
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 12:25:10


Bayern München is the best!
Level 60
Report


Edited 9/3/2015 11:59:09
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 12:27:06

huddyj
Level 61
Report
At this stage the original p/r will remain, but it could work to make larger groups, meaning less relegations and more promotions for season 1 instead.

The best, if you win enough matches, you won't have to worry about relegation anyway. I haven't changed the p/r. I'm just getting feedback at this stage.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 12:29:04


Bayern München is the best!
Level 60
Report


Edited 9/3/2015 11:59:16
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 13:00:26

huddyj
Level 61
Report
With larger groups considered (10 per group), here is another possible alteration to the p/r. This also has the benefit of allowing for an expansion group (Group E) next season.

Group A.
Top 5 stay. 6th-8th to Group B. 9th-10th Group C.

Group B.
Top 3 promote. 4th-6th stay in Group B. 7th-8th to Group C. 9th-10th to Group D.

Qualifying Groups.
1st promotes to Group A. 2nd-3rd promote to Group B. 4th-6th to Group C. 7th-10th to Group D. 11th relegates to Group E (Expansion Group)
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/2/2015 16:30:15

mslasm 
Level 59
Report
The last one I think is better as it has faster player movement in all directions, which makes it more fun.

If only the top player is promoted and only a couple are relegated the games become that much less meaningful for most players after only a fraction of the games in each group are done when most players already can estimate that they are not gonna be #1 but also not gonna be the last 1 or 2. Also faster lifts allow new players to quickly settle into the correct group, and give players a chance to jump above their head for a season, which is maybe not 100% fair but is more fun - IMHO. Long term any promotion system will sort the players correctly, but short term faster promotions/relegations make for a more entertaining league :)
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/3/2015 04:53:28

huddyj
Level 61
Report
The larger groups for next season looks like a good idea, and unless most players would prefer to keep the original policy, I will update the p/r policy to allow for larger groups and an additional expansion group.

Here is the updated policy for you to consider.

A - B Q1 Q2 Season 2 groups will be made up as follows:
5 - 3 - 1 - 1 Group A: Top 5 from A, Top 3 from B, Top 1 from Q1/Q2.
3 - 3 - 2 - 2 Group B: 6th-8th from A, 4th-6th from B, 2nd-3rd from Q1/Q2.
2 - 2 - 3 - 3 Group C: 9th-10th from A, 7th-8th from B, 4th-6th from Q1/Q2.
0 - 2 - 4 - 4 Group D: 9th-10th from B, 7th-10th from Q1/Q2.
0 - 0 - 1 - 1 Group E: 11th from Q1/Q2. (The remaining spots in this group will be filled through new players who want to join the league)

With that in mind, here is a quick look at each current group and my speculations on who will promote/relegate with the updated policy.

Group A.

Player Wins Losses
Gibs 5 - 2
TWOLKER 4 - 1
huddyj 3 - 1
Pink 2 - 0
USA Biches 2 - 0
Lampião 2 - 3
Dacian Novac 2 - 3
Slats 0 - 1
Diplomatic Immunity 0 - 4
PanagiotisTheGreekFreak 0 - 5

Still lots of matches still to be decided in this group. Looks like a lot of fighting for the top 5 spots, though I'd say both TWOLKER and Gibs will likely finish top 5. PanagiotisTheGreekFreak & Diplomatic Immunity look set to drop to Group C next season. Dacian Novac and Lampião will need to win most of their remaining matches if they don't want to relegate to Group B next season.

Group B.

Player Wins Losses
mslasm 7 - 1
Philip B' 6 - 0
The best 5 - 4
Pantelas 4 - 1
slydog384 4 - 2
Kevin Turner 2 - 3
alpha83 2 - 6
boorzuur 1 - 7
DanetDuo 1 - 7
Auburn Meadow 0 - 1

This group looks to be all but decided, though Auburn Meadow is an unknown factor. Philip B' and mslasm look certain to promote to Group A next season, and with Philip B's win over mslasm, he will likely go through undefeated. The last promotion spot could be decided when Pantelas and slydog384 face off. boorzuur and DanetDuo are likely to relegate to Group D next season. Auburn Meadow, alpha83, and Kevin Turner will be looking to avoid relegation to Group C. The best has played all his matches, and will almost certainly remain in Group B next season.

Q1

Player Wins Losses
Master Bjarke 4 - 0
Don 4 - 2
kirdol 4 - 2
Platinum 3 - 3
Des 2 - 2
slejer 1 - 0
Master Turtle 1 - 1
ipg 1 - 5
Ryzys 0 - 0
ARand0mPlayer 0 - 1
Dublin Warrior 0 - 4

No certainties here, although I'd say Master Bjarke should finish in the top 3 and thus promote to either A or B next season. Dublin Warrior and ipg will probably end up in Group D or E next season. Other than that, who knows.

Q2

Player Wins Losses
Buns157 5 - 0
Sultan Kosmitow 3 - 1
rocky1 1 - 0
smileyleg 1 - 0
lancegal 1 - 0
BenSeu 1 - 1
indibob 1 - 4
Matt431 0 - 0
KingNorbs 0 - 2
Ἀθηνᾶ 0 - 2
Coronel Gavilan 0 - 3

Hardly and matches played yet in this group. Buns157 looks like finishing in the top 3 and promoting to either A or B next season. Nothing more can be said about this group at the moment, other than that they are very slow.

Edited 9/3/2015 05:10:01
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/3/2015 10:23:20


Dublin Warrior 
Level 49
Report
I think I'm gonna need some help after this...
I guess I'm just not putting enough thought into my gameplay.
It's been a rough week all around, so that doesn't help my gameplay either. :P
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/3/2015 11:38:33

huddyj
Level 61
Report
I will update the standings for each group every couple of days by editing the above post, so that way it's easy for you all to keep up with all the other tournaments just by checking my post.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/3/2015 19:43:38


Coronel Gavilan
Level 57
Report
This is my first qualifying, it's exciting to play against high ranked players. I'm good at diplos, but I have to learn a lot in this small earth 1v1. Good luck for everyone!
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/3/2015 20:22:56


indibob 
Level 61
Report
one small comment though. The aim of the P/r league was for players to judge where they fit in over a few seasons, but this wont really be the case if top players are regularly joining and being placed in the bottom division.
Will the league at some point become closed and only bring in new players when existing ones drop out?
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/3/2015 20:43:28


buddyboyb1
Level 56
Report
Can you join me in next season or whenever.

one small comment though. The aim of the P/r league was for players to judge where they fit in over a few seasons, but this wont really be the case if top players are regularly joining and being placed in the bottom division.
Will the league at some point become closed and only bring in new players when existing ones drop out?


You would need to wait a couple seasons, so new people could know about it, but after season 5 or so, then you could close it.

Edited 9/3/2015 20:43:45
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/3/2015 23:17:20

huddyj
Level 61
Report
one small comment though. The aim of the P/r league was for players to judge where they fit in over a few seasons, but this wont really be the case if top players are regularly joining and being placed in the bottom division.
Will the league at some point become closed and only bring in new players when existing ones drop out?


My thoughts on this would be to make the expansion group (Group E) always be a qualifying group. That way new players could promote quickly (e.g. winner goes directly into Group A, 2nd-3rd move dierectly to Group B. Also, top players in each group would super-promote (go up 2 divisions rather than just 1) and bottom players will double relegate (drop 2 divisions). This way the league will sort itself out fairly quickly.

I can only host 5 tournaments at once, so at this stage I am limited to only 5 divisions. Ideally, you wouldn't want more than about 10-12 players in any given division, as the seasons would start to drag on for quite a while. If 5 divisions all had their maximum (12 players), 60 players would be the overall league maximum. Once we reach that, it will be a closed league, and new players would be put on a waiting list for when someone drops out.

We are currently sitting at 42 players, with another 4 looking to join next season, so I'd say it will only be 2-3 seasons before we reach capacity.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/3/2015 23:27:40

huddyj
Level 61
Report
Another thought I have been considering is to finish each season with a 16-player single elimination tournament consisting as follows:

Top 7 players from Group A.
Top 5 players from Group B.
Top 2 players from Group C.
Top 1 player from Group D.
Top 1 player from Group E.

The winner of this tournament (rather than the winner of Group A) would be crowned League Champion. That way a recently-joined good player would still have a chance to take out the League title even though they aren't in Group A yet.

The results of this tournament would not influence promotion/relegation, as that is decided by the round-robin tournaments.

This tournament would have a 1 day 1 hour boot time with vacations honoured. Declined players will be replaced by the next highest ranked player from their group.

For season 1 this tournament would consist of the top 4 players from each group.

Edited 9/3/2015 23:33:12
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/4/2015 09:19:28

mslasm 
Level 59
Report
Replying tthe message sent to league participants:

1) > Promotion/Relegation for the end of Season 1. I've mentioned several ideas on the thread...

The last proposal looks good to me (your post from 9/3/2015 00:53:28)

2) > Settings for future seasons. Boot times, vacations honoured/dishonoured, number of games at once, etc.

I personally prefer boot time of 3 days, even though games may take a bit too long. 1 day + banking up to 2-3 days would work as well for me (e.g. to let people take a weekend off, if they made their moves fast during the week). Number of games at once can be "all games" as far as I'm concerned, that should speed things up a bit; maps are small, moves should not take that much time to make.

3) > Overall league numbers. My thought is a maximum of 5 groups with 12 players in each group for a total of 60 players. New players will only be admitted if current players leave.

60 players seems reasonable enough. But to keep the league alive need to strictly kick anyone who was booted or did not accept tourney invitation within X days. Maybe also kick the last couple of players form the last group, to let some new blood in every season.

Edited 9/4/2015 09:20:19
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/4/2015 13:13:59

huddyj
Level 61
Report
Thanks for your thoughts mslasm, I've had mixed responses about limiting league numbers, but more than 12 players in each group starts to get a bit too big I think, and also I can only host 5 tournaments at once, so unless someone else takes on a couple, that's the maximum.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/4/2015 16:12:17


indibob 
Level 61
Report
I think people would more prefer a quick turn around between seasons to keep the interest going. a 16 player tourny is going to take some time to complete.
Also on that point, those in tier A have earnt their way there and the winner of that division deserves the title in my opinion.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/4/2015 16:47:42


Buns157 
Level 68
Report
I agree with indibob about winner of tier A should be the champion.

Though about this whole quick relegation and dropping multiple groups after the first or second season seems bad to me. why promote from group B knowing that the competition in group A will mean you will come last and drop down to D or beyond? They might lose games on purpose to come 2nd or 3rd.
SmallEarth1v1 Promotion/RelegationLeague Season 1: 9/4/2015 17:20:45

Philip B'
Level 58
Report


Edited 9/4/2015 17:21:37
Posts 1 - 30 of 87   1  2  3  Next >>