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Perspective and 3D map making: 6/19/2015 09:47:32

Blortis
Level 59
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Hopefully someone finds this useful

For those people using Vector Magic to combine images you can actually use 1 point perspective to find the right scale for everything. It's really easy, just watch this video.

https://youtu.be/7u6yBDmtg48

One problem you will run into when combining images is that the originals are viewed from different angles. If you have an ocean viewed from a high angle and a mountain viewed from the front slapped together it's not going to look right. Not much you can do about that except try to find pictures with similar camera angles.

The Siege of Feldmere https://www.warlight.net/Play?PreviewMap=42171 has that problem because the houses are on a different angle. I like the map and the houses add a lot to the gameplay by adding choke points but they were made using a different method than the rest of the map. Most of the map is drawn in isometric perspective(all walls are the same height). The houses were drawn in 2 point perspective from a forward angle making them seem to pop up from the map and not be attached to the ground. Not only is the difference of angle a problem but an object in 1 or 2 point perspective can't be copy pasted without adjusting.

I made this to show what happens when you don't adjust 2 point perspective duplicates. Notice the optical illusion that happens. The two on the left and the one in the middle look like they are 3 different sizes but they are identical.

Here is the house from Feldmere with it's original horizon line. Notice that if I stay along the same lines I can shrink the house and make it work a little but the further I move left the more out of wack it becomes with the right vanishing point. More importantly it shows how scaling becomes a problem because of the large size difference in a short space.

You can get more room by spreading out the points but it is still limited and more work than it's worth.

I thought about making a map using perspective a few years ago but decided it just isn't suited for a Warlight map. Maybe as something decorative but not for an entire map. I think the best way is to make all walls the same height(isometric perspective) like you see in Huruey's Castle, Complex and Feldmere. This way you can copy paste and repurpose things without adjusting. It has a nice consistent look. It's also the method of a lot of old games like Age of Empires.

Just a quick example.

This is an abandoned map idea from a while back. It's based on the Firepro Wrestling series and uses the same method.

Perspective and 3D map making: 6/19/2015 15:43:05

Sitzkrieg
Level 55
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That was a really good video. So I'm making this map from an isometric perspective and using the neon green lines as a guide to keep all of my territories in the same perspective. I know the objects (train, tank, planes etc.) are not to scale but I want them to be large and visible. The turquoise and purple territories are finished, but I still need to finish aligning the red, yellow, and blue territories. Do the objects look alright from this perspective? And will it look okay once I finish making all of the territory lines match my neon green guide line?

https://www.warlight.net/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=40979
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/19/2015 16:51:08

M. Poireau
Level 55
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Excellent post.

I've been playing the Siege of Feldmere map a lot, and noticing that not only is the perspective odd in a couple of places, as you point out, but the shapes of the territories also contribute to the sense of things being "wrong".

Look at the little island in the middle of the map for a good example. The shapes are drawn so as to imply a certain perspective as well, and they don't match - neither each other, nor the art around them. This all gives a sense of skewed perspective.

(Despite this, I really like that map. But the perspective is pretty wonky!)
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/19/2015 17:11:08

[NL] Willem van Oranje
Level 57
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I like age of Empires, but 3D effects in warlight are fine as it is.
Because I like the Isometric perspective, it are still MAPS not drones making a fotographs
If someone could make a true perspective map, it would be really artwork because you need to obtain the right angle (like you said etc.) and all things have to be the right perspective compared to eachother. Only an artist could do that. If you make shadows (Stalingrad) you make it yourself even harder.

Edited 6/19/2015 17:20:47
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/19/2015 18:16:35

Sitzkrieg
Level 55
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Yeah, but shadows make it look more realistic. I've still got a long ways to go on it, but the size limit is really killing me right now.
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/20/2015 18:01:32

Tarhani
Level 55
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Isometric is not only easier to draw.
As you zoom in and shift the map around, the point of view changes. Without a 3D engine like in unity there is no chance to build a real 3D map that is correct for all points of view.

So isometric is the best choice for 3D maps, both the map maker and the viewer will be happier.
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/20/2015 20:31:04

Blortis
Level 59
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Yes isometric is the way to go.

Warlight is meant to be played on maps not a scenic landscape. For those who want to use vector magic I would suggest maybe using photos from space like this.

@Sitzkrieg
I think it looks pretty good but everything seems to be getting smaller as it goes back in the distance and that shouldn't happen with isometric. At first I thought this map was in 2 point.

File size limit is an important thing to discuss. I would recommend making your map first and then adding decorative elements later in increments so you don't do a bunch of useless work. Of course simplifying all of the objects as much as you can.
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/21/2015 01:33:38

Dr. Stupid
Level 58
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Great thoughts, Mr. Blortis! (Now I remember why I like you)
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/21/2015 23:14:18

Ranek
Level 55
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This is a pretty good assessment for 3D modeling. The conclusion should help with further 3D map projects, which seem to become famous right now.
I would rather suggest to avoid vectorized pictures in general, they are often too big and still need to be adjusted. shadows are in my opinion a good way to attach objects to the ground or let them fly.

but the shapes of the territories also contribute to the sense of things being "wrong".

you are right. I also tried to let my territories support the spherically view in *planetary annihilation*, if you look closely you may notice, that most of the territories are curved on the side which is closest to the next planet rim. By the way I also made an adjustment mistake within my last update. but it is so tiny, so it doesnt bother and in fact, that the map isnt that popular I dont want to make the effort to change it. maybe if someone find it.^^

https://www.warlight.net/Play?PreviewMap=43958

Edited 6/21/2015 23:15:43
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/22/2015 09:38:23

Blortis
Level 59
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This mess struck me like a dart to the eye. Get back to work.
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/22/2015 14:18:44

Ranek
Level 55
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that is indeed awful ...
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/22/2015 20:32:41

M. Poireau
Level 55
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Very true about the shapes of the territories: on the larger planet, the shapes you chose really add to the sense of a 3-dimensional sphere.
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/22/2015 20:36:12

Blortis
Level 59
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It should be a popular map. I don't know how someone looks at that map and rates it a 3 or less. My maps are not popular either but fortunately for me I enjoy making and playing them.
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/24/2015 10:57:37

Mädness
Level 55
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3d map where the "higher" points have better Attck/def rates when you attack a lower pcik then vice versa would be so great,and would change tactically a lot!!!!
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/24/2015 11:01:55

Ranek
Level 55
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unfortunately not possible.
Perspective and 3D map making: 6/24/2015 20:37:07

M. Poireau
Level 55
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I made a post about a modification to the game along those lines which *should* be possible.

https://www.warlight.net/Forum/94408-taking-warlight-next-level
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