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Opinions - Diplo: 4/6/2015 20:08:04

Mugzybrown
Level 20
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Curious for opinions on a diplo situation I was in.

Game was full distribution on a full earth map. (countries). I announced that my county claimed a few territories that are traditionally disputed (in real life) and were currently owned by another player... think Russia claiming Crimea.

I waited a turn and then invaded, and was declared PE as I did not 'declare war'.


Just curious on opinions.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/6/2015 20:18:42

DanWL 
Level 62
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Providing the game link would make the decision(s) easier.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/6/2015 20:26:13

Mugzybrown
Level 20
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Yeah, but I'm curious without providing the who's involved.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/6/2015 20:30:37

MrHymen
Level 56
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Claiming land/disputing land =/= War Declaration.

Game link would be useful though.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/6/2015 21:13:12


Martyrose
Level 58
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As some people said before, it all depends on the game link.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 00:39:51


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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My rule is if you say that you are taking these territories, it's all legal, so long as it's clear.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 05:52:58


Poseidó̱nas
Level 57
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Yes but unless it was your game it wasn't your rules :P
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 06:21:25

M. Poireau
Level 55
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Can't really give an opinion without seeing the actual messages.

However, I'll say this:

In any kind of "declaration" diplomacy environment, there are three possible cases.

1. Everyone understands very clearly that you have declared something (in this case, potential war).
2. Everyone understands very clearly that you have not declared something.
3. The situation is ambiguous: maybe you have declared something, and maybe not.

In the first two cases, there is nothing to talk about. It's the third case which becomes our litmus test; the third case tells us what kind of game this really is.

I see two possible modes of play:

In the first mode, things are very strict. There is no room for ambiguity whatsoever. If there is any doubt about what has happened, it will be ruled against you. You must be 100% clear, all the time. If you weren't clear, you're violating the spirit of the game. The burden of proof is on you.

In the second mode, ambiguity is, rather, a useful tool, to be used to your advantage. Here, the cleverest player is the one who is a cunning politician, and who can say the exact same thing to two of his opponents, with each taking it as a promise in their favour. If it turns out they misinterpreted you, that's their loss. Here, the burden is on the recipient.

If I'm playing in a diplomacy game, I'd want to know which of these is the mode of play.

Do you know which it is in your game?

Edited 4/7/2015 06:22:45
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 09:46:59


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 51
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The second mode mentioned above usually quickly escalates into an FFA pretty quickly.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 11:47:15


Poseidó̱nas
Level 57
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always depends on the players.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 14:25:28


shyb
Level 59
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this is why i hate playing diplo games now. if you are going to allow ambiguity why even have a rule about declaring war? and if i host a game and try to strictly enforce the rules to eliminate ambiguity i have too many people disagreeing with me and stupid arguments follow.

a tip to anyone who likes playing diplo games. listen to the host (if they are present) or they may just stop hosting diplos altogether. and if you don't like having stupid arguments then always be clear about your intentions.

wait, what am i saying? most people join diplos to have stupid arguments...
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 15:28:20


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 51
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I agree with shyb, however I have not given up on diplos totally. I have just started being more careful with my settings, and who I invite to them.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 15:33:54

MrHymen
Level 56
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I believe that a rule stating that to declare war you must say "I declare war on...." could be a good idea for the future.
There's no question on what they are saying then.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 16:07:55


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 51
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Maybe we could incorporate the "diplomacy" style game into WarLight by enabling settings such as "declare war" button on a player's pop-up profile in the bottom right box? The same might be used to declare allies, and that'd enable the transfer of troops through his land?
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 16:40:51


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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I think Fizzer dœsn't really support diplomacies, and though he won't prohibit them, he won't help them, either.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 16:43:25


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 51
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I think the same... but if we can convince him that he'd please the "diplo" community, and he thinks he might make a profit, he might oblige.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 16:59:43

M. Poireau
Level 55
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Or maybe you should embrace the second mode of play? It's much more like the real world, and potentially much more interesting, than the black-and-white sort of diplomacy that seems to be popular here.

There's much more variety of strategy in that style of game, and you don't need any special settings.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 18:08:34

Mugzybrown
Level 20
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Here is the link

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8255050

Looking back, I do admit I wasn't crystal clear on my intentions, but nevertheless, I was just having fun.

Plus I'm still causing havoc, so that's enjoyable.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 18:18:11

M. Poireau
Level 55
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"I claim such and such lands in the name of my country"?

That seems pretty clear to me.

Your opponents want to declare you PE on a technicality, so they can remove a competitor from the board.

Whether that's breaking the rules of the game, or precisely the sort of play which is intended, I don't know.
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 18:45:00


[WL] Colonel Harthacanute
Level 51
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What your opponent is engaged in is called "immature impulsive tactical PE declaration syndrome". We should not discriminate against him, of course (political correctness). Fizzer the Watcher has blessed us with the right to blacklist these types of players.

Edited 4/7/2015 18:45:11
Opinions - Diplo: 4/7/2015 18:53:25

Mugzybrown
Level 20
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Well I appreciate the moral support.

I get the PE idea, but people just love to whine and declare everybody and their brother PE.
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