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Important battles of history: 5/5/2015 16:47:55

(retired)
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Now to go back to the topic, my favorite battle (and also an important one) would be the Battle of Roncevaux Pass in 778.

Belligerents:

- The Franks (led by Charlemagne himself and major Frank knights)

vs.

- The Vascones (mainly ancient Basque highlanders of across the Pyrenees with substantial help from the Northern Aquitanians (later Gascony) and Southern Basque muslims of Banu Qasi)

Location: The Pyrenees mountains (Roncevaux Pass)

Victory to:
The Vascones


This battle was romanticized by oral traditions and recounted in 11th century as The Song of Roland, an epic poem in old French, which is the oldest surviving major work of French literature, as a major conflict between Christians and Muslims, although, in fact, both sides in the battle were Christian (most of the Basques during that period were actually still pagans, excepted the upper class and lords of Vascony who embraced the Christian faith, and the Banu Qasi dynasty who were Basque muslims of South Navarre).

The legendary Roland, governor of the Breton march, desperately blowing the oliphant horn to summon revenge


Famous extract of the Song of Roland epic poem in Old French:

"Cumpaign Rollant, kar sunez vostre corn,
Si l’orrat Carles, si returnerat l’ost."
Respunt Rollant: "Jo fereie que fols!
En dulce France en perdreie mun los."

Respont Rollant: "Ne placet Damnedeu
Que mi parent pur mei seient blasmet
Ne France dulce ja cheet en viltet!
Einz i ferrai de Durendal asez." [1062-1065]

"Que ço seit dit de nul hume vivant,
Ne pur paien, que ja seie cornant!" [1074-1075]

……………………………………………….

"Roland, my friend, it’s time to sound your horn,
King Charles will hear, and bring his army back."
Roland replies, "You must think I’ve gone mad!
In all sweet France I’d forfeit my good name."

Roland replies, "Almighty God forbid
That I bring shame upon my family,
And cause sweet France to fall into disgrace!
I’ll strike that horde with my good Durendal."

"No man on earth shall have the right to say
That I for pagans sounded the Oliphant!"


On the evening of Saturday August 15, 778, while marching through Roncevaux Pass in the Pyrenees a large guerilla force of Basques sprung an ambush on the Frankish rearguard. Using their knowledge of the terrain, they decimated the Franks, plundered the baggage trains, and captured much of the gold received at Zaragoza.

The soldiers of the rearguard fought valiantly, allowing the remainder of the army to escape. Among the casualties were several of Charlemagne's most important knights including Egginhard (Mayor of the Palace), Anselmus (Palatine Count), and Roland (Prefect of the March of Brittany).


Background of the battle:
With the rise of the Carolingians and Pepin the Short's war on Aquitaine, the Duchy of Aquitaine led by Waifer was defeated and a program of Frankish penetration into the duchy ensued under Charlemagne. The Basques (Vascones, Wascones) of the Duchy of Vasconia, one of the mainstays of the Aquitanian army, submitted to Pepin in 766 and 769, but the territory south of the Garonne remained largely unscathed and self-governed—Duke Lupus cited.

Here are the two main reasons of this battle:
- As of 778 Charlemagne expanded Frankish takeover of Aquitaine to present-day Gascony by appointing trusted Franks and Burgundians as well as Church officials in key regional positions and (re-)establishing counties, such as Fezensac, Bordeaux, and Toulouse, on the left banks of the Garonne. Charlemagne's colonization attempts bitterly displeased the Basques.
- During the retreat of his army after besieging the city of Zaragoza, Charlemagne ordered that the fortifications of Pamplona be destroyed, some sources indicating the city was destroyed altogether, reducing the threat of it being used as a base to attack the Franks. Pamplona (known as Irunea "the capital" for the natives) has always been the historical city and capital of the Basques. This antagonised the local population, and can be viewed as a possible cause of the battle that followed.


Scenario of the battle:



Vascon warriors later known as the Almogavars (from arabic al-mugāwir "the one who provokes riots"), here fighting the Saracens


Monument celebrating the victory of the Basques in modern day Roncevaux (Orreaga in Basque)



Aftermath:

The Franks failed in capturing Zaragoza and suffered significant losses at the hands of the Basques. They would only be able to establish the Marca Hispanica a decade later, when Barcelona was finally captured. Zaragoza remained an important Muslim city, capital of the Upper March and later of an independent emirate, until the 11th century.

Defenceless Pamplona was captured by the Muslims soon after and held by them for some years, until in 798-801 a rebellion expelled them as well and helped to consolidate the Banu Qasi realm and eventually the constitution of the independent Kingdom of Pamplona in 824.

In the year 812 there was a second ambush attempt in the same pass, which ended in stalemate due to the Franks taking greater precautions than they had in 778, i.e. they took Basque women and children as hostages.
In the year 824 was the possibly more important Second Battle of Roncevaux, where counts Eblus and Aznar, Frankish vassals, were captured by the joint forces of Iñigo Arista's Pamplona, future king of the Basques, and of the Banu Qasi, the Muslim basque dynasty, consolidating the independence of both Basque realms.

Those battles finally allowed that a Basque Kingdom comes to existence: establishing a Basque kingdom under the king Arista that developed and was later called Navarre. This Kingdom would reach its zenith under Sancho III the Great (Antso Nagusia in Basque), united most of the Basque tribes under his rule, comprising most of the Christian realms to the south of the Pyrenees, and even a short overlordship of Gascony (early 11th century), and being the first to bear the title of "Rex Hispaniarum (King of the Spains). After the king's death, the sons of Sancho III finally divided his kingdom into what would be later known as Castile, Aragon and Navarre. Without Navarre the reconquista would have been unlikely to ever happen.

Historical flag & coat of arms of Navarre (the mythology of the arms would trace it back to the reconquista most decisive battle of Las Navas de Tolosa in 1212 involving the king Sancho VII of Navarre, where the cavalry broke the chains of the caliph's slave-warriors and captured an emerald among other prizes):


Edited 5/5/2015 18:20:00
Important battles of history: 5/5/2015 16:54:22


Жұқтыру
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Ok, I was mistaken - just one French general.

Not really, unless you are Barbara Jelavich (where my source came from), expert on the diplomatic histories of the Russian and Habsburg monarchies, the diplomacy of the Ottoman Empire, and the history of the Balkans. So stop pretending yourself historian.


Apparently, she's not an expert. This is probably another crap source.
Important battles of history: 5/5/2015 17:09:24

Elroi{IL}
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Lol You really hate to admit a mistakes?
Important battles of history: 5/5/2015 17:11:21


Жұқтыру
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Tsh, no, arguments are about learning.
Important battles of history: 5/5/2015 17:12:53


Жұқтыру
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My favourite gerb (Karl V):



Edited 5/5/2015 17:13:04
Important battles of history: 5/5/2015 23:40:33

(retired)
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^ Charles V just pretended to own the entire world... Just look at his coat of arms crazy.
Important battles of history: 5/5/2015 23:43:29


Жұқтыру
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Not just pretended - did.
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:17:51

Made In China
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Battle of Khe Sanh-Distracted the anti-communist forces from realizing about the Tet Offensive.
Battle of Thermopylae-Gave enough time for the Greeks to prepare for the Persian invasion.
Battle of Osan-First Korean engagements
Battle of Normandy-Marked the end of the Nazi Regime (Third Reich)
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:21:27


Жұқтыру
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All these wars are relatively unimportant. Vietnamese War - unimportant. Greek-Persian war - unimportant. Osan - unimportant.

Normandy - no.

If you really want to be specific about it, it's Spitbergen battle in September that marked the Nazis' end. But I think it's Berlin's capture (or at most, Flensburg's capture) that marked Nazi's end.
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:21:42


Жұқтыру
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Normandy is in France, by the way. Not even in Germany.
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:25:36

Made In China
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To be honest, I thought he was asking about important battles, not the wars' importance themselves.
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:26:54

Made In China
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And, I didn't say Normandy was in France, I said it was the end for the Nazi Regime, as it took back France while the Soviets pushed further into Nazi territory in the East.
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:42:07


Жұқтыру
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Soviets destroyed Berlin - what more do you need for ending the war in Europe? What you're trying to say is the end's beginning, I think - but that's Moscow Battle in 1941, when the Germans could not push more into the valuable European Russia - or perhaps Smolensk Battle, where the Germans were critically haltered.

Edited 5/6/2015 00:43:16
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:44:18

(retired)
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or Stalingrad :D
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:45:15


Жұқтыру
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That, too.
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 00:49:58


Major General Smedley Butler
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Kursk=yeah allies win gg
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 03:22:28


Genghis 
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Midway, Al Alamein, Moscow and Britain were the turning point battles of ww2. 1941 k not 1942, which many might think) was the real hot box for game-changing battles.

Also, WW1 battles were mostly just bloody trench warfare with usual 1:1 losses. It's just awful to flip through a few articles on them.

North Africa is often thought of as "so important". It wasn't. The commanders at hand (specifically rommel) were what made it special.
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 03:26:51


Жұқтыру
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Midway - Japan wasn't trying (who needs Midway)
Al Alamein - Africa's pretty worthless. As long as they stopped them before they got to the Nile, it works.
Britain - Badly named - This was a theatre, not a battle.
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 03:39:15


Genghis 
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That's the Idea on Africa, xy.

Britain only had 1 series of important engagements, afterwards it was just bombing runs now and then.

Would battle of coral sea be sufficient for you?
Important battles of history: 5/6/2015 03:59:42


Жұқтыру
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No, the Solomon islands didn't change the war in Japan - Guinea and India did. Solomon islands were strategically worthless.
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