No, you only lose in idle.

@καλλιστηι, krinid, JK_3

The reason is not autopilot (autopilot picked 20 territory while Otto picked 10), we resume the talks on the global chat and figured what happened from Otto's inconsistent explanations and refusing to go into detail. He first claimed that its because of "trained a lot" but when asked, couldn't explain his fast pick method, when we ask him to record himself doing it again (since everybody has phone, he can easily record himself and upload on youtube easily), he refuse to replicate similar outcome with legit ways. He was just using an additional software (mouse macro or script) to make that fast pick.

Just now in round of 16, I tried using phone, with left thumb spam tapping the commit button, and right thumb tapping the start button (which I adjusted to be directly above the big start) and spam tapping territories quickly. Made 12 picks in 2.6 seconds.

I mean big star.

@krinid I mentioned that to the tourney creator @mathematician, but didn't see that those games could be rigged, so...

Edited 4/4/2023 23:25:24

I repeatedly try doing what I described above in single player. Most of the time I get 2.5-3.5 seconds. Here's a video of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoxiFRiF71E

I can't get anywhere close to 2 seconds with that method.

some people built different

Currently I don't see how otto could get such a fast time consistently. Maybe otto used a script, or maybe otto came up with a method that I didn't think of, or maybe otto did something similar to me but spent really a lot of time practicing it after I first hosted the tournament in 2021. At the moment I'm open to all of these possibilities and don't want to make definite statements like otto must have used a script or otto must be innocent.

The pick time for otto in the two games in the current tournament so far are 1.581 and 1.619 seconds. That's significantly faster than the quickest times in the 2021 no-luck lottery tournament. The fastest time in that tournament was around 2 seconds, which I think is reasonable given that I got 2.5 seconds with no practice and in single-player (which takes extra reload time compared to actual multi-player no-luck cycle): https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=41947

(The 2022 no-luck tournament was that the slower picker wins, not the faster one, so there's no point in comparing it)

Whether otto actually used a script or not, it's clear that scripting will always be a possibility in this template and may stir more controversies in the future. Therefore, I'm coming up with a new template with no-luck cycle on the lottery map (that's the joke, putting no luck and lottery together), but not exactly the fastest clicker wins like the current tournament nor the slower picker wins like the 2022 one. I have some ideas in my mind already, and will implement those ideas and make a new tournament when I have time. If it works, I'll use that for next year's April's Fools instead of the current template. Spoiler: I may call the new template "no-luck lottery hide and seek".

autopilot adds 30 seconds to your pick time to prevent cheating.

I did not know that

JK so smart

wow didnt know that

@krinid I mentioned that to the tourney creator @mathematician, but didn't see that those games could be rigged, so...

@3.1415926535

Are you CraZy#4007 on discord? If not, I think you misunderstood what krinid means by "rigged". CraZy#4007 was the only one who (very indirectly) mentioned to me something related to what krinid said here, that those games could be "rigged" in the context of what krinid was talking about. You were talking about another type of "rigged".

You're talking about actually rigging the game, against my intended design of the tournament, like using a script to pick faster. The player is the one doing the rigging. That's not what krinid was talking about. But anyway, when you mentioned that someone might have used auto-pilot to gain unfair advantage, I did see that it's a possibility. Just because I didn't immediately conclude that it must be auto-pilot doesn't mean that I didn't see that it could be the case. That's why my first reply to you in the tournament chat was to ask you to send me the game link for me to look into it so I can investigate it. (and well, now we know that it was impossible to be auto-pilot, though there is still a possibility of being other forms of rigging the game as many have mentioned here)

Anyway, krinid was talking about the section of the rules which list tournaments and games with certain properties as rigged. So, I was the one doing the rigging as the tourney creator, not otto. krinid was talking about the tournament itself being rigged by the tournament creator by picking certain setting, not players rigging games against the tournament creator's will. This is the relevant section of the warzone rules:

A game is also considered rigged if it has a specific trick to winning that isn't obvious. For example, if one territory or region of the map is so powerful that whoever gets it will surely win. The only way these kind of games might not be considered rigged is if the game description clearly outlines what has to be done to win in the name and description, and is such that any player has an equal chance of competing for the victory. Warzone games should require strategy to win, not fast fingers.

I wasn't aware of this section of the rules, in particular the last sentence, until 2 days ago (1 day after I created the tourney) when CraZy#4007 posted a game link on the Blitz discord server where someone used my no-luck lottery template to create a game, with Fizzer being one of the invited players. Fizzer shut down the game and said that the game is against the rules in the game public chat. So I checked the rules and saw this paragraph (and I discussed about that in the discord server).

So, in the context of what krinid was talking about, even if there's a (magical?) way to completely shut down the possibility of unfair advantages like scripting or using membership-only features or having good equipment, the template is still considered to be rigged by what the rules were describing.

The no-luck lottery template was intended to be an April's Fools joke. The idea is that putting "no-luck" and "lottery" together in the same sentence sounds funny. So I made a template that features no-luck cycle in a lottery map. As I can remember, back in 2021 people seemed to enjoy my April's Fools no-luck lottery tournament. Unfortunately it turned into a bit of drama this time. I apologize for give some people some not-very-good time due to this April's Fools joke this year.

@mathematician don't assume I would be @crazy for no reason at all. If you actually read the discord, you will see @3.1415926535 on the discord, especially since I ask for a LOT of help for #warzone-idle.

Unfortunately it turned into a bit of drama this time. I apologize for give some people some not-very-good time due to this April's Fools joke this year.

understandable enough... do other stuff next year, you have 362 days to think about it (including Feb 29 next year lol)

against my intended design of the tournament, like using a script to pick faster. The player is the one doing the rigging.

Good point. However do note this is the internet, people can be really stupid here. Like otto who did the rigging.

It's unfortunate. However I would recommend you read the rules before knowingly creating something that is probable to be against it, obviously.

Edited 4/5/2023 05:33:06

Apparently the tournament is deleted already, so probably what krinid described was accurate. (Fizzer didn't send me any message telling me about the deletion of the tourney or anything like that)

I came up with a new idea and have created a new template that still features no-luck cycle on the lottery map, but the person who gets first pick has roughly equal chances of winning as the person who clicks slower. So hopefully this wouldn't violate that section of the rules. Unfortunately this requires the meteor mod which isn't supported in tourneys. I'm currently finding a way to use supported mods to recreate a similar mechanics, and hopefully can launch a new no-luck lottery tournament (without controversies) soon :)

I think it's harmless in the end as there's no entry fee; I think it's clear that you're not intending to siphon coins from people on it

No-luck Lottery is pretty funny tbh

I came up with a new idea and have created a new template that still features no-luck cycle on the lottery map, but the person who gets first pick has roughly equal chances of winning as the person who clicks slower. So hopefully this wouldn't violate that section of the rules. Unfortunately this requires the meteor mod which isn't supported in tourneys. I'm currently finding a way to use supported mods to recreate a similar mechanics, and hopefully can launch a new no-luck lottery tournament (without controversies) soon :)

GENIUS.

Do the same thing Stef did, which is manually create games with it and invite players. You have a membership.

And now, you can call it a no-luck luck lottery.

I think it's harmless in the end as there's no entry fee; I think it's clear that you're not intending to siphon coins from people on it

In the end, yes. But people like @otto want to siphon coins from YOU. By giving everyone else a horrible time.
I hope they returned the coins though.

Edited 4/5/2023 05:38:23

I think I figured out a way to use swap territories instead of meteor. It'll change the mechanics a bit, but a quick calculation tells me that it's still roughly equal chances for each side. And swap territories is a tournament-supported mod.

Need a member to test it with me though because the AI in single-player is kind of stupid.

@Mathematician

If you have any question about mod(s), feel free to ask me. As a mod creator, I know a lot about them :)

@Mathematician

Just now in round of 16, I tried using phone, with left thumb spam tapping the commit button, and right thumb tapping the start button (which I adjusted to be directly above the big start) and spam tapping territories quickly. Made 12 picks in 2.6 seconds.

- Nice, but this is irrelevant to Otto's cheating. You can pick much faster with phone but Otto himself said that he was using standalone client (Warzone's computer program version).

- According to Otto, he was not even using phone. I like people's efforts to make Otto look innocent, a community should try to protect each other like that. We also tried to think of all the possible ways he could be innocent on global chat but still, there is literally no way of Otto, doing it without cheating with the information we have

Quite an accusation to make without any evidence.