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Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 15:46:17

Unreality
Level 50
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We will always get one of the first 4 picks, right?

So it will be impossible to get the pick of 7 & 8 at the same time, right? :) Thx for reading (and answering)
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 16:02:45

Hennns
Level 58
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I believe you`ll find what you need there ^^ :)
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 16:04:58

Hennns
Level 58
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wait, I think that`s for 1v1... my bad :p

anyway, I do think you`ll always get 1 out of 4 first picks :)
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 16:24:00

Ⓖ. Ⓐrun
Level 57
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2v2, 2 picks each player, assuming you have coordinated your picks and do not overlap with your teammate (though this might be desireable in some occasions):

Players in order A, B, b, a - a, b, B, A (spot the elk!)

with A + a = Team 1 and B + b = Team 2

(IIRC it is not possible anymore for one team to get the first 2 picks, so an order of A, a, B, b should be impossible?)

Player A (=1st pick) might end up with:
1 2 (0 overlapping picks)
1 3 (1 op with B or b)
1 4 (2 op with B and/or b)
1 5 (3 op with B and b)
1 6 (4 op with B and b)

Player B (=2nd pick):
1 2 (0 op)
1 3 (1 op with a)
1 4 (2 op with a)
2 3 (1 op with A)
2 4 (2 op with A and a)
2 5 (3 op with A and a)

Player b (=3rd pick)
1 2 (0 op)
1 3 (1 op with a)
1 4 (2 op with a)
2 3 (1 op with A)
2 4 (2 op with A and a)
2 5 (3 op with A and a)

Player a =(4th pick)
1 2 (0 op)
2 3 (1 op with B or b)
3 4 (2 op with B and b)

-> possible outcome:
1 2
1 3
1 4
1 5
1 6
2 3
2 4
2 5
3 4

someone else do it for teammates with overlapping picks :-)

It does have 2v2 picks on that thread Hennes - not for mirror picks though.
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 17:13:53

Wenyun
Level 59
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With Mirror Picking...

Pick order goes like this: ABbaabBA (Or whatever equal variant)

Honestly, I feel like this is the easiest way to look at it.
```ABbaabBA
12345678```

As we can see, if all teams pick the same, then one team gets 18/45 and the other gets 27/36. Assuming all picks were made from best to worst, these are the worst picks you can get in a Strat 2v2.

It is sometimes possible to know which opponent has which intel picks. I have included it in notes on the right.

Possible regardless of which picks you get
14/23
15/24
15/34
16/24
16/25
16/34
16/35
17/23
17/24
17/25
17/34
17/35 <- One enemy can't have 2+4.

Only possible if you get 1st pick (The A Team in my example)
16/45 <- One enemy can't have 2+3.
17/45 <- One enemy can't have 2+3.
18/23
18/24
18/25 <- One enemy can't have 3+4 or 6+7.
18/34
18/35 <- One enemy can't have 2+4 or 6+7.
18/45 <- One enemy can't have 2+3 or 6+7.

Only possible if you get 2nd pick (The B Team in my example)
17/26
17/36 <- One enemy has your 4/5.
25/34
26/34 <- Different enemies are in your 1 and 5 picks.
26/35 <- Different enemies are in your 1 and 4 picks.
27/34 <- One enemy has your 5/6.
27/35 <- One enemy has your 4/6.
27/36 <- One enemy has your 4/5.

(Note: In the linked topic, 1368 was said to be possible for a 4-pick 1v1 (Which is like Strat 2v2.) This is impossible; if you go first you cannot get both 6&8, and if you go second you cannot get 8 at all.)
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 17:43:23

Wenyun
Level 59
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But, if Unreality is lazy today...

We will always get one of the first 4 picks, right?

You will always get at least two of your first 4 picks.

So it will be impossible to get the pick of 7 & 8 at the same time, right? :) Thx for reading (and answering)

You cannot get 6+8 or 7+8, no matter how you/your ally/your opponents pick.
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 20:32:51

Jehovah
Level 58
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mirror picking sucks.

dont mirror pick.

why?

too complicated too understand.
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 20:34:58

Jehovah
Level 58
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the best combos are usually the first turn combos and a safe 5 combo, so assign a player to each (if possible).
then just pick similar 3,4,5,6 picks with your teamate and try to cover the nice region
7,8 are usually picked just for the fun.
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 20:42:24

Ⓖ. Ⓐrun
Level 57
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Not really... Mirror picks can a) Make it more likely you get picks in key regions and b) help when there aren't too many nice places to pick.

I hope you were joking..
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 21:59:47

Jehovah
Level 58
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General Arun {Warlighter}

2 v 2 ladder with Daeniem: Not Ranked with a rating of 0. Best rating ever: 1230, best rank ever: 27th

2 v 2 ladder with {101st} Rinrin: Ranked 21st with a rating of 1416. Best rating ever: 1419, best rank ever: 21st

2 v 2 ladder with BobdeBouwer: Not Ranked with a rating of 0.

2 v 2 ladder with kevin#1{warlighter}: Not Ranked with a rating of 0.

2 v 2 ladder with [BR] eddieh4rry: Not Ranked with a rating of 1349.
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 22:11:38

Jehovah
Level 58
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total teams in ladder with ranking =28

your stats speak for themselves. :/
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 22:12:47

Ⓖ. Ⓐrun
Level 57
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Your posts speak for themselves :/
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 22:28:12

Jehovah
Level 58
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they do indeed.

so does my win over you a few days ago ;)
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 22:54:10

Gjallarhorn
Level 55
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Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/17/2013 22:54:50

JSA
Level 59
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Gotta agree with Megatron on picks for 2v2 here. First turn bonuses and turn 2 5 bonuses are often the best picks. Mirror picking has its uses too but I feel like it should be used less than half the time. Teams have done it succesfully, Luxis and Frankdeslimste, Ruthless Bastard and Grinche, Grona and dunga, among others. But there are also successful teams that do not mirror pick very often. It is best to vary up your picks a little bit so that the opponent can not predict you as easy. The truth is, in 2v2, there is no best picking strategy. Either way can win you the game or lose you it depending on the scenerio. There is also the option of partial mirror picking that is used sometimes by good teams. I have seen top teams lose while mirror picking to non-mirror pickers or non-mirror pickers losing to mirror pickers. 2v2 is more about gameplay than 1v1. Players are more used to playing 1v1 style rather than 2v2 style and so are more likely to make a mistake plus there is twice as many chances for mistake in 2v2. It leads to games that are more about gameplay than picks (granted some games between top players are still decided on picks, just fewer than on 1v1).
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/18/2013 01:17:23

Motocross5800
Level 50
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Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/18/2013 05:41:59

Jehovah
Level 58
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well done motocross!

beating geeral arun means you're our new WL legend!

Hip Hip!

Hooray!
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/18/2013 06:00:31

Jehovah
Level 58
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but back to 2v2 picks...

yeah, like jay said, it always depends on the distribution scenario, sometimes the distribution is good and you can go by textbook, but sometimes it gives you saggy balls and you have to change your methods, mirror picking, counterpicking and spoling, picking all over the map etcetc.

I really dont recommend spoiling the game by counterpicking, not because its not effective but because it ruins the fun.

and yeah, like jay said, 2v2 is more about picks than gameplay. Time the gift card well and it can confuse your opponent and work to your advantage. Discussing, especially on picks and cards is very important too. though i barely talk to my teammates.

PS: Unreality, just curious, but who are you thinking of doing the ladder with?
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/18/2013 06:01:33

Wenyun
Level 59
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the best combos are usually the first turn combos and a safe 5 combo, so assign a player to each (if possible).

Mirror pick with 1 and 4 with one combo and 2 and 3 with the other combo for essentially the same results. If your 7/8 picks are "for fun" then you should have no problem as you only have 4 other important picks that can fill up 5-8.

total teams in ladder with ranking =28
(Obviously this is referring to Rinrin/Arun, considering Arun hasn't ranked with any other team)

You can't honestly be thinking "Well Rinrin's doing her* part and Arun's bringing the team down." (*Alright, should be 'his').

1) My 2v2 and 3v3 play are nowhere near as refined (If there ever is a "refined" for myself...) as my 1v1 play. Thus, I am worse at 2v2 and 3v3 than 1v1.

2) Me and Arun don't mirror pick at all so if you're using our play as an example of how mirror picking is bad, don't.

3) My playstyle depends on my name. My name has been changing a lot. It's hard to play with someone who switches their playstyle very often. It doesn't help that my previous name is Naivete, something that I thought I'd like but turned out to be horrible.

Overall I'd give at least half, if not more, of the blame to me. >.>
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/18/2013 06:07:09

Jehovah
Level 58
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My playstyle depends on my name

wait wtf? so your play is more agressive on one name than the other?

so if you changed your name to {101st}timid does that mean you will just stack? :P
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/18/2013 06:16:13

Wenyun
Level 59
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wait wtf? so your play is more agressive on one name than the other?

Yes, L'Cie being the most aggressive one as of late.

so if you changed your name to {101st}timid does that mean you will just stack? :P

I'd be AWESOME at Small Earth, but would probably suck at big FFA's where I'd need to eventually break an alliance. Of course, then again there was that person called "v(^.^)v Peace" who didn't make peace.
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/18/2013 08:31:25

Jehovah
Level 58
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what about {101st}Jay? would that make you the best and most modest player in WL?

cool!
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/18/2013 08:52:43

Mudderducker
Level 57
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I must say Kerosea that is pretty weird but unique ;), it's annoying though what to call you so I just stuck with Kerosea.
Quick 2v2 noob question:: 8/21/2013 02:31:50

Unreality
Level 50
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Thanks for all the explanations! It helps a lot!

To Megatron:

I'm teaming with [Lynx]General Charles, playing the {101st} 2v2 tournament (entered final, yay).

I'm also laddering 2v2 casually with [Lynx]Dom.

I've quit single player ladder otherwise it will consume my life ;) I gotta play less Warlight

p.s. very funny kerosea :)
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