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Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/1/2023 12:55:13


Bring * back! ⌛sucks! 
Level 62
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Clan Wars matchmaking matches people from the highest rating down to the lowest. This means, that if your clan has a low rating (either because the clan is new or has bad players), some will often not get a game. Not a free win. Just no game - try again next slot. You find bloody time to join CW, which requires you to be online at specific times, and the game doesn't give you a game because you suck too much. Calling this disrespectful would be an understatement.

Proof this is a problem: https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3968, https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3967, https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3965, https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3963, https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3962, https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3957

Possible solution:
0) Join all players in the given template in a pool. Remove them from the pool once they are matched.
1) Update the pool. Let N denote the current size of the pool.
2) If the pool has players just from one clan, give one free win and end.
3) If the biggest clan has at least N/2-1 players in the pool, GOTO 5).
4) Match a player from the highest-ranked clan and 2nd highest-ranked clan. GOTO 1)
5) Match players from the biggest clan and outside that clan, give one free win if at least one player reminds, end.
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/1/2023 13:03:38

otto 
Level 61
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With your proposed algorithm, what would be difference in the matching in https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3968?
And what would be different in https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3967?

Just to get a better feeling of your proposal...
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/1/2023 13:48:14


DanWL 
Level 63
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Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/1/2023 19:54:41


Bring * back! ⌛sucks! 
Level 62
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With your proposed algorithm, what would be difference in the matching in https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3968?
And what would be different in https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3967?

Just to get a better feeling of your proposal...

My algorithm has few hidden variables which do not matter much, but change outcome. I will show one branch.


https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3968
Taszilo would get a free win.


https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=24&Timeslot=3967
I am not sure about the rating of clans during the slot, but I will assume from button to top: (FTW, Cats, Prime, Celtica, ...)

stud9 vs Terminator broken
Disc can fly matched with stud9
mdg22 matched with Terminator

Edited 1/1/2023 19:57:33
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/1/2023 21:10:44


krinid 
Level 62
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Great idea & totally agree (not giving players who specifically made time to play CW is a total extreme lack of respect to the player base), but it's all been said/discussed and still no change.

Dan's suggestion of UserVoice seems to be the best suggestion but not sure that specific UV post is the right one, it bundles things like 'players can join multiple slots every day', 'no CW cap and clanless players can join CW' (don't think people are aligned on this) with things like 'improved matchmaking and template choice' (which in itself is actually 2 suggestions), 'personal ELO system', 'coin rewards and clan ranking based on personal ELO of active clanmates', 'idle rewards based on activity and # of wins', etc.

But the requirement to get Fizz's attention has pretty much been stated - get a UV post with 600+ votes, and he'll take a look.

That said . . . **we already know that he tends to not change things he has differing feelings on even if the community clearly asks for something else, and we know how he feels about some things from the AMAs such as:
- he thinks FWs are fine, including how clans actively target getting them
- he thinks the rating system is fine
- he thinks the matchmaking works well, he considers this giving priority to "quality games" rather than maximum the quantity of games; the community has spoken to indicate that we the people playing the games don't consider this to give us higher quality games (for a variety of reasons such as differing skill levels in clans, etc) and we'd rather have less occurrences of 'no game' - but no change b/c of ** point above
- he thinks clan cap of 40 is fine, wants more smaller clans not less bigger ones
- he thinks the CW roster limit of 40 is fine, in fact required to so that large clans just aren't able to power through and win even with low WR
- he thinks playing >1 game/day doesn't work for reasons similar to the previous point
- he feels CW is a clan based event, so awards should be aligned as such, every shares in the same glory (or lack thereof)
- he thinks there is room for improvement with template choice
- he stated that overall CW is working fine, as intended, all is well, but there are a couple things he's been considering but that it's not on the immediate TODO list, but that CW would get it's "day in the sun" at some time in the future

My point here is that it makes the most sense to spend effort where there is the most room to sway, not where we've already been shot down. And we've also seen that bundling a bunch of things together sometimes just gets attention to the point he most strongly disagrees with and then the whole group of recommendations gets shot down as a whole.

My opinion ... (a) fix the matchmaking to maximize game quantity over "quality" (yep we've been shot down on this already, I know), and (b) instead of getting FWs at all, just give up a "Free CW 1 Game Pass" that the player can redeem during any slot until the end of the season, even on a day he's already played, and (c) also give players an option to play a different template in the event that they don't get a game match (just b/c I didn't get a game in SE1W doesn't mean I wouldn't take a game in SEAD or Bomber, but it needs to be robust to clearly allow the user to select what the acceptable substitute templates would be [similar to QM template selection]
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/1/2023 21:29:55


Bring * back! ⌛sucks! 
Level 62
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The Uservoice. I wrote on pretty much all WZ Discords, posted on WZ forum, mailed clanmates. Many people liked the idea,
2 people have voted for the idea on UV.
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/2/2023 12:38:14


111
Level 58
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The same question has been suggest led by me the LAST 2 FIZZER AMAs and the answer is no.
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/4/2023 19:19:11


krinid 
Level 62
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@111
Specifically what did you ask and what was the response?
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 1/8/2023 05:15:04


Bring * back! ⌛sucks! 
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Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 2/2/2023 22:08:42


FiveSmith 
Level 60
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This is actually a very good "almost no downsides" idea with a clear implementable solution.

Bumping the thread so it doesnt get locked in the nearest days.
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 2/2/2023 22:33:30


Tac(ky)tical 
Level 63
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+1
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 2/2/2023 22:38:42


Bring * back! ⌛sucks! 
Level 62
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This is actually a very good "almost no downsides" idea with a clear implementable solution.

It literally dominates the current system (is better or equal for every single case):
-> current wouldn't result in no game -> algorithms are equal
-> current would result in no game -> my maximizes the # of games

Edited 2/2/2023 22:42:17
Can Clan Wars be fixed already?: 2/2/2023 22:46:12


FiveSmith 
Level 60
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My "almost" comment was regarding to how i understood the free wins aspect of this idea (or that it is not clear enough, what was proposed in detail).
But that's just a minor tweak within a bigger benefit.
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