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Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/25/2022 15:46:19

Mark
Level 27
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I just upgraded to level 3 statistics and really like the recipe stats but they don't show the amount of bars needed to complete crafting items needed for techs. For example, if I need 100 nickel bars for 1 tech and 100 barbed wire (10 copper + 1 nickel) for another tech, the stats report says I need 100 nickel, 0 copper, and 100 barbed wire instead of 200 nickel, 1000 copper, and 100 barbed wire.

Yes, I know I can still use a calculator but that still lowers the value of the stats report, which is ever changing based on crafting discounts, using the tech discount artifacts card, etc. Things can get awfully complicated when trying to figure out how many, say, aluminum bars are needed to make welding bars to make motors to make generators..

One good thing I really like about the report is the profit per second. It verified what I recently realized...The highest priced craft item is not always the best to make to raise cash after the techs are complete. A lesser item, using cheaper ingredients and less time, can be more profitable. Nice to be able to see the difference at the click of a button.

Edited 6/25/2022 17:25:07
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/25/2022 16:52:21


AbsolutelyEthan 
Level 62
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Im not super far into idle, so maybe there's an answer that I'm not aware of, but you're right it only shows the bars that are directly needed for techs, and not the ones needed as ingredients. There is an advancement that auto sells stuff not needed for techs, and it specifically calls out that 'needed for techs' includes bars needed as ingredients, so Idle does track that info.
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/25/2022 21:45:19


JK_3 
Level 62
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Its either 100 barbed wire + 100 nickel you need, or 200 nickel + 1000 copper, but not both at once.
200 nickel, 1000 copper, and 100 barbed wire is way more resources than actually needed, so displaying that would be factually wrong.

The statistics only display what you need, and I think its up to the player to figure out how to get it. Since most players buy the required items for techs from market anyways, just displaying how many items they need to buy makes more sense to me than breaking down each item into its bars.
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/25/2022 22:52:42

Phoenix
Level 24
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200 nickel, 1000 copper, and 100 barbed wire is way more resources than actually needed

As you've correctly said yourself, most players just buy. That means that some players still craft/smelt. Hence, for those that craft/smelt, the aggregated numbers would mean, that the nickel smelters must run 200 times and therefore finish 200 bars. So, the numbers change based on the perspective you have on the game. And for some the aggregated numbers would be just fine.
As I said a bunch of times, the game assumes that you play it in a specific way, and this just adds to that list of arguments. If you want (or don't have other options than) to smelt/craft yourself, you have a certain disadvantage compared to players who buy.
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/25/2022 23:35:49

Mark
Level 27
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JK_3. It's a matter of perspective but I respectfully disagree with your arithmetic. In my example I need to smelt 100 nickel bars to satisfy the first tech, another 100 bars of nickel for the barbed wire, 1000 bars of copper for the barbed wire and then I need to craft the 100 Ni/1000 Cu into barbed wire for the second tech. Therefore, in addition to the 1200 combined bars, I still need 100 barbed wire (by crafting, not smelting).

Also, buying the nickel and copper from the market and crafting the wire (instead of simply buying the wire) is much more cost effective given that I am usually short of cash for buying mercs, upgrading hospitals, army camps, and mines, as well as paying for digs. Buying the alloy bars and selling the corresponding ore generates a lot of cash for the other needs.
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/25/2022 23:35:53


Splat 
Level 63
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@JK, Phoenix

The point Mark is making is that the count for how many of each item you need for techs doesn't take into account if certain items are needed for crafting other items that need for crafting.

Mark's example is that 100 nickel bars and 100 barbed wire are directly needed for techs. If barbed wire costs 10 copper bars and 1 nickel bars, then the amount of items needed to purchase the tech, in total, are 200 nickel bars, 1000 copper bars, and 100 barbed wire. 1000 copper bars + 100 nickel bars needed for the 100 barbed wire + 100 nickel bars needed separately.

Also there may be cases where an item you need for techs is not in the shop, but the ingredients for it are, so if the stat accounted for the items needed for recipes to make other items, that would be useful information for those that buy and/or craft/smelt.

Edited 6/25/2022 23:37:23
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/26/2022 15:49:14

Mark
Level 27
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Splat. Correct.
Mark says I need eggs to bake a cake.
Phoenix & JK say just buy a cake. No eggs needed.
Everyone is correct....from their own perspective.
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/26/2022 21:59:35

Lkcynric
Level 26
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I understand what you mean. Would be great to have separate options to use it as normal (shows what you need of each item) and what you want (what you truly need). But as far as I know its only 1 dev and 2 games, so it would take a lot of time to implement. I like the idea though. I can see it get out of hand easily though, as things use other things and so on.
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/26/2022 22:55:27


Splat 
Level 63
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Not really cause as Ethan said, auto-sell does take into account ingredients needed for items being crafted/smelted for deciding what to sell and how much, though the auto-sell advancement, for whatever reason, only checks all the techs you can reach, so if you have stats 4 and thus can see all the techs and their requirements, auto-sell doesn't check any techs beyond what are next in the tech tree that you could get.

So if the Auto-sell advancement has that level of calculations already programmed in, why do you think Fizzer would need a lot of time to copy the calculation over to the stats advancement and apply it to the techs needed column, allowing it to also account for if any items are needed to craft any other item(s)?
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/26/2022 23:41:04

Lkcynric
Level 26
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When I say a lot of time I don't mean this specifically.

Since he updates both games, alone, I'm sure there's a priority list somewhere, while I think this would be a cool implementation, I just thought it wouldn't be top of priority, thats what I meant. But WTF do i know. No clue how he works and like you said, part of the work was already done, so maybe its simple enough that could come quicker than other suggestions.

Also speaking of that, make this a suggestion if you want it to be. There's a place for that somewhere, dont have a link though.
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/27/2022 10:32:20

Phoenix
Level 24
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Phoenix & JK say just buy a cake. No eggs needed.

Please, don't take my statements out of context:
And for some the aggregated numbers would be just fine.

I'm totally with you that I would prefer the "needed" column be the sum of all techs AND all ingredients (or at least that this would be somewhere to be found). If you interpreted my comment otherwise, then I wasn't clear enough with my wording.
and it specifically calls out that 'needed for techs' includes bars needed as ingredients

is that one proven to be correct? Especially the part that it only respects recipes of products that you actually need for techs? Because the exact wording of the advancement is
and that aren't used in recipes.

Which I would translate into: "if any recipe uses this stuff, auto-sell won't sell it regardless of any techs needing the outcome of this recipe". Or alternatively, "stuff that is actively used right now for any smelters/crafters running at the moment". But honestly, I don't really care about auto-sell (and most other auto-advs) so, Fizzer might have clarified this at some point and I just didn't listen (because I hadn't cared)

PS: the only problem with the statistics displaying the sums in the last column is that these numbers then had to respect the numbers for "have". Because otherwise the statistics would always say "200 nickel" until you unlocked the tech that needs the wires. That could be even more confusing than it is today.

Edited 6/27/2022 10:35:07
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/28/2022 06:03:38


Splat 
Level 63
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PS: the only problem with the statistics displaying the sums in the last column is that these numbers then had to respect the numbers for "have". Because otherwise the statistics would always say "200 nickel" until you unlocked the tech that needs the wires. That could be even more confusing than it is today.


Well the "techs need" column could have been scripted to account for the "have" column anyway, even without accounting for "needed in recipes", but Fizzer just didn't do that for whatever reason and only accounted for the face costs of all visible unpurchased techs.

Edited 6/28/2022 06:04:04
Minor issue with Recipe stats: 6/28/2022 06:14:15

L.L.
Level 55
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If you were to show crafted items as bars, that would mean, that you would also show those bars as ores because the items are made of bars and the bars are made of ore. But ores will never show on recipe stats, because they don't have a recipe. That would make it really confusing.
Posts 1 - 13 of 13