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Upcomin ladder change: 9/11/2014 18:14:46


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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http://blog.warlight.net/index.php/2014/09/upcoming-ladder-changes/

Few questions:
will ladder reset?
when TrueSkill will come? can you Fizzer make a prediction?
the 2v2 template how many territory will have for each player? in ME was 2 and wasn't enough. Final earth is bigger, i think 4 is ideal.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/11/2014 18:22:35


RA 
Level 58
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=501585

• 0% WR
• Starts: 4 / 4 /+5
• Wastelands: 10x5
• Unpicked warlords - 3
Upcomin ladder change: 9/11/2014 18:31:17


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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yeah. :)
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 05:52:31


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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and why is the RT ladder sbout to be changed to 3min + banking boot time, while the voted clearly want to remain on 5 and add bank?
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 06:32:04


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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I dunno, but this change is welcomed by me. 5 min plus bank leads to longer games which is not something I want.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 07:19:28


Latnox 
Level 60
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@Fridge
Well, not exactly how I read the pool results. There are 2 options - add bank time and stay with 5 min per turn
or
add bank time and reduce timer to 3min/turn.

I'm not saying I like it (I'd prefer 5 min/turn as well), but that's clearly how majority voted.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 08:26:07


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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Latnox, no. You are very wrong. - if you read the blog and not only forum post, you'll see the interpretation mistake made by fizzer..



votes     %   option
   53   34%   A) reduce to 3 min/turn, but add 5 minute initial bank
   44   28%   B) Keep 5 min/turn
   39   25%   C) Keep 5 min/turn, but add bank to picking stage
   20   13%   D) I don't know or I don't care

  156 TOTAL


Technically the OPTION picked the most was reducing to 3min, adding initial bank
(chosen by 34% of the voters)

HOWEVER

28% + 25% = 53% of voters said they want to maintain 5 min/turn,
from which 47% wanted to add ADDITIONAL banked time for picking stage.

So boot time HAS TO stay at 5min, the only question is whether to add initial bank, or not.

.

furthermore - Fizzer contradicts himself - he says to many templates would be a problem for the new players, yet please show me a new player capable of commiting large income, mid game orders within 3 minutes.. Add a template he is not very familiar with to the equation and you will see 3min boottime would be way to short..

Edited 9/12/2014 08:40:12
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 08:52:58


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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yeah. i would be fine with 1 min autboot as well. I am a fast player. but usually opponent can take more than 3 minute.
I think, in LD and heavy earth, soemtimes 5 min aren't enough for example.
Add banking time will make games slower. For this i think keep at 5 min is best idea.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 09:13:42


Latnox 
Level 60
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Latnox, no. You are very wrong.

Well, if you look on it in this way :P

So this is kind of problem I've mentioned somewhere before - some questions (and answers in this case) are conditional tward others. Like no. of consecutive games require to be ranked could be differed once True skill is applied. Or % of blockade card depends on template.

Edited 9/12/2014 09:14:19
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 09:29:13


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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this is something completely different to what you mention..
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 11:34:27


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I sure hope it does not stay at 5 minutes. Pace is a huge reason i do not play it. The other is nobody on. I sat on the rt ladder for a half hour yesterday and nobody else got on
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 19:18:24

Memele 
Level 60
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AlterEgoist that's your viewpoint but I can add another:

34% + 25% = 59% of voters said they want to add additional banked time for picking stage,
from which 58% wanted to reduce to 3 min/turn.

So additional banked time HAS TO be added, the only question is whether to reduce time to 3 or not.


"5min" and "5min+banking" ARE DIFFERENT. You can't just join them only because they have something in commom...



P.S: But it's true that the right time depends on the template.

Edited 9/12/2014 19:19:15
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 19:58:05


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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Fridge don't manipulate the data. Of the possible changes, the most popular should be used.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 21:00:10


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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Arun, Memele - are you guys really that stupid or just trolling??

It's not data manipulation at all. It's basic data analysis.

there were 4 types of people:

- people who don't care
- people who want to have at least 3 minutes to commit orders,
- people who want to have at least 5 minutes to commit orders,
- people who want to have more than 5 minutes to commit orders.

reducing to 3 minutes, while over half of the people feel they need 5 minutes or more is just plain ignorance at poll result analysis.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 21:15:49


RA 
Level 58
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[derosnec] taht yllaer s'eh ,gnillort ton si nurA taht wonk uoy ,ǝƃрıɹF

Edited 9/12/2014 21:27:10
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 21:18:38


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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i know Ra, but I've had a lot of faith in Fizzer.
I have a strange feeling now that i was wrong about him...

drow retteb a saw edgirf. suoivbo ot si egassem ruoy won, Ra

Edited 9/12/2014 21:20:28
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 21:30:07


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I was one of the 'reduce time' votes, but I do agree it seems the majority does want 5 minutes. Perhaps we could only keep that on LD ones?
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 22:32:11


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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LD got voted out. I actually liked that template
Upcomin ladder change: 9/12/2014 22:39:54


RA 
Level 58
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Сonclusion: voting is bs. We need the ruling elite.

Edited 9/13/2014 00:08:29
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 06:24:17


Summer 
Level 61
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By using fridge's graph analysis...



ME and MME are basically the same map with only a slight difference in how they are played. Should one have been removed from voting im sure that because of how similar they are it's voters would have voted for the other ME map.

54 votes for an ME map, while only 50 for FE. So the 2v2 ladder should stay the same.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 06:42:48


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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no summer. they are different. voting about how much time you need to move is totally different. i am surprised you don't see it..
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 12:45:18


wakanarai 
Level 58
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@beren: there are 2 LD templates in and only 1 (with the Light Fog) got voted out so Turkey LD still remains in the list

About the boot timer i personally prefer the 5 minutes so you can still make changes while like said before with 3 minutes that is already much harder to do. I'm a pretty fast player myself when i play RT games but i rarely join games with 3 minute boot or lower. I only join them when i'm sure that i can take turns on those setting in the given time on the map it is played on and with RT ladder i don't really think it would benefit fast boot settings on most of the templates that are in use now with the changes.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 13:24:42

JSA 
Level 59
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Fridge, summers argument is the exact same as yours...

I agree with 5 minute boot times because while more people voted for 3 minutes, a majority of people voted for the 5 minutes or more. Definitely can't do more when more voted for less, so your best option is to keep it the same.

And for summers idea, she is completely right, mme/me would have won if only one of them was an option.

So either both should be changes, or neither.

I'm surprised you can't see it fridge.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 15:15:01


Beren • apex 
Level 63
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@wakanarai, you're right that Turkey LD didn't get voted out, but games on that template tend to to be less than 10 turns in length anyway since the map is so small, so the length of the game in that case is no more than any other template. My understanding is that people were generally complaining about the possibility of games on the MME LD map dragging on forever.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 17:17:29


Pushover 
Level 59
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RT ladder being changed to 3 minute boot ensures I will never ever play the RT ladder again. Though that said, I also vowed to never play it until the being-matched-up-an-hour-after-you-join-then-getting-booted thing was fixed, and there seems to be no push to fix that.

One option that was never even considered that should be: there should be extra time given for picks.

Edited 9/13/2014 17:18:42
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 17:53:47

Fizzer 
Level 58

Warzone Creator
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These polls are certainly not scientific and the results could be interpreted in different ways. Poll design is actually quite difficult.

Fridge and Summer both show examples of how you could combine multiple poll options and then argue that the sum outweighs the other options. In theory this could be correct, however the data does not conclusively prove the theory. Only further polls could.

There's all sorts of examples that you could argue should be combined. You could even combine Final Earth and Heavy Earth's numbers since they both contain Paraguay. 72 voters voted for maps with Paraguay versus 54 that voted for maps without it, so clearly Paraguay is very important to voters, right?

Could that be true? Yes, it could. However, the data doesn't conclusively show whether voters voted for those maps based on Paraguay or based on some other factor. There's no way to be sure based on this poll data.

I present this as a silly example to show why combining poll options is a guessing game. You have to try to guess why someone voted for what they did.

One option that was never even considered that should be: there should be extra time given for picks.

You should read the actual poll. This was considered -- it was on the poll!
RT ladder being changed to 3 minute boot

It's not being changed to 3 minute boot. It's being changed to 3 minute boot with 5 minutes initial bank, meaning that you can actually take 8 minutes for a turn if you want. It's possible you knew that and were just omitting it, but everyone is focused on the 3 minute thing so it might be easy to miss that.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 18:11:53


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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Excellent I definitely prefer this change.
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 18:16:31

Pulsey
Level 56
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i'm rlly confused about this banking boot time, so first turn do i get booted after 3, 5 or 8 minutes?
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 18:22:54


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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after 8
Upcomin ladder change: 9/13/2014 18:31:46

Pulsey
Level 56
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I didn't understand that, sorry :P
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