Agreed Mulva, would be a waste of money. I suppose if Scotland does vote for independence, then the English wouldn't have to worry about the West Lothian question then eh?

Well, no. Because Welsh and Northern Irish MPs would still be allowed to vote on acts of parliament that only affect England, whereas English MPs would have no say on acts that only affect Wales or only affect Northern Ireland because they both have their own regional assemblies.

Empire is gone, coalition is in danger of breaking up, falklands will be next...

Maybe in the future some country will start dumping Opium into the country, and when the UK government starts protesting, they get beaten up in a war, and gets their land taken away from them. Lets see how much they like that.

Edited 9/8/2014 18:22:30

I know right! We may even get that country to build infrastructure for us, put down local rebellions, side with us in civil wars, introduce modern training and weaponry to the army, provide officers for said army, help build fortifications, protect our shipping from pirates, develop industry ... etc etc.

Then forget all about how they helped us modernize little more than one to two hundred years later ... Or better yet we'll write it out of our history books and ban such things as computer games which dare to suggest we weren't always the most modern, most amazing, most unifiedest ever country!

:p

:3

Edited 9/8/2014 18:30:34

Braveheart was gay and a paedophile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHA1ufmLZQY

I used to think that countries should be joining together instead of splitting up ... we should be moving towards a united world. But now I think centralisation is bad and we should have massive decentralisation of power towards local governments, and I support devolution and all independence movements should get a referendum.

If the scottish vote with no, they can never sing this song with pride again!
Shove it up your arse. We can sing whatever we want.
I'm a big fat no. We're not living in the past with jethro tull and robert the bruce

P.S. Braveheart is a crap film.

What are your reasons for backing no, GeneralGror? Very interested to hear why.

辛酸中国人是辛酸

I'm all for yes. Let the Scots bloody have independence, on the Hebrides. It's the one last place they actually speak Gaelic in Scotland as a first language, so let it be like Malta and Italy.

However, that probably won't happen. However, even if the entirety of Scotland gains independence...it's going to be bad for Scotland, much more than it will be for England. Scotland has no population, no infrastructure, no way of making money...let them be independent and die. (That's what happened to Africa and India)

If Scotland folds it'll only be us picking up the pieces though...

The way things are going right now, even if Scotland folds under independence (why is everyone saying it would?) AND given that the UK wants to leave the EU...it would be in fact the Germans, the French and everyone else BUT the UK to pick up the pieces.

Even if the UK stays in the EU, it would still be the EU's responsibility, not UK alone.

Scotland won't fold under independence. Anyway an economically strong Scotland benefits the U.K even if Scotland is independent, the borders region (where I am from) and the rest of the U.K trades a lot with Scotland and all of the two countries plc's and many small businesses, are inextricably linked to both countries.

I think Arun is referring to the U.K bailout of Ireland though - which got some money from the E.U alongside punitive cost cutting sanctions and some money from the U.K as solidarity / we really can't afford to see Ireland become destitute.

I agree with you that Scotland won't fold under Independence, yet some think that this would be the case.

Now understand what Arun is talking about, I can see the fear there.

Due to the economic importance of Scotland, I highly doubt that the EU would just let Scotland fail and leave it up the UK to pick up the peaces (if Scotland did fail). The EU is becoming too integrated, the ramifications would be too great.

Interesting piece I just read:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independent-scotland-could-join-eu-in-18-months-1-3535302

To be quite honest, I'm not quite sure what kind of ramifications there would be if the UK leaves the EU (as Westminster is suggesting), but would Scotland really be worse off being independent and in the EU or with the rest of the UK leaving the EU? Still up in the air though whether the UK leaves or not, of course.

It's very interesting that there is a push for closer connection and more centralisation between European countries while there is a counter push within many of these countries towards devolution of powers to localised governments or even complete secession.

Why do people think Scotland would fold under independence and what exactly do they mean by fold?

Because the English Government runs it's NO campaign on fear - especially economic fear - you can't use the pound, you can't join Europe, you'll be a small economic nation with no say in (anything!) etc etc.

It's quite sad to see hundreds of years in political union, Scottish dynasties on the British throne in that period, numerous Scottish contributions to the Union and the best the Tories can come up with is fear tactics. Absolutely nothing celebrating what we have - could achieve together ... but then Tories will be Tories it's how they roll.

The media prints it because the government releases the fear pieces direct to them and they don't have to spend resources investigating it - it is news served on a platter (is it really news if the government releases it as a press release? Should that be reported on the facts of only the press release? / Interview? [I guess that's a separate question]) Then the media reports it and obviously some people believe it without further thought.

It is very interesting, and also the comment about Spain and Italy which I tried to ask people about yesterday to almost no avail.

And also the article whilst suggesting Scotland could join the E.U easily - which I agree with - it's in the E.U (and Britain's interest) Also mentions that Scotland would be over a bit of a barrel concerning the Schengen and the Euro. I'd expect Brussels to put huge pressure on Scotland to buy into the Euro idea lock stock and barrel. So it can trumpet Scotland wanting to buy into the full European system at a time when England is so vocally trying for European reform or even a return to Europe as a trading block as opposed to a political union, and whilst Brussels faces huge anti-European gains in even it's strongholds of France, Germany and The Netherlands.

Edited 9/9/2014 14:58:35

Because the English Government

England doesn't have a government.

Yeah tell that to anyone outside of Westminster

Way to tow the party line.

You know as well as anyone else in Britain that it's ruled from London.

If I'd said the Westminster Bubble Government would that make you less pedantic?

I'm not so sure Europe or Scotland would want Scotland to join the Euro. The Euro does not work for perimeter countries. SCotland would likely be better off economically if it kept the Pound Sterling or even its own currency. The Euro is far too inflexible. The core Eurozone countries are unlikely to want to bring in another small country into it's fold when that could easily contribute to more instability.

Most campaigns are run on fear these days.

Brussels needs a victory and Scotland believes it needs to be in Europe.

I believe these two fears will come together. Especially if Westminster plays hardball over the pound.

Well Scotland would have to wait at least 2 years before joining the euro because 1 of the requirements is 2 years membership of ERM II, The UK is not in ERM II, so an independent Scotland would have to join ERM II before joining the euro. A currency Union between the UK and an independent Scotland would require the support of both governments. Considering the UK is against all currency unions, then a sterling zone is unlikely.

However, given the commitment the 3 main parties have set out for "devo-max" if Scotland votes no, I hope Scotland votes yes. Why should Scotland get special treatment? If they're willing to offer Scotland that much regional power, why not offer it to the rest of us?

Edited 9/9/2014 15:30:21