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Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 19:20:34


StormFront
Level 31
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This game is awesome. I first came across it on a minigame site about a week ago. I loved the single player but got annoyed with the AI and I was interested in playing more maps, so I came here. This is like the professional version of Kdice, which is the multiplayer version of Dice Wars. I love strategy games, like Starcraft, C&C, Total War series, Civilization...I play this game off of Alltel DUN(dial up networking), tethering my cell with my laptop.

What really makes this game awesome is the maps and the configuration. The variety along with the sheer size of the maps is insane :)

What I would really like to talk about is the potential this game has and some feedback from a fairly new player. I know some of you think that tips from a new player about the direction of Warlight is unwelcome, because most online games/boards of this small size usually have a group of vets who have been here since the beginning that think they run everything. I've seen it happen on so many games of similiar size and every time it turns off a majority of new players.

Here are a few things that should be done to improve Warlight and to bring out its potential: (no particular order)

*Advertisement(to the masses). Simply put, there are not enough people for multiplayer to run efficiently. I play this all day and I am constantly waiting for a game to open or for people to join a game I create. This is another way to turn off new and old players alike. I like the invitation system but there is no incentive to invite people. Perhaps a reward system, or even granting people membership for a limited time, for inviting every certain amount of people. We(Warliglht) needs to use every means necessary to get us out there. People will come, they just need to know.

*Advertisement(for free players). While I do love the ad-free nature of Warlight, it should be a members only luxory. Nothing excessive of course. But Warlight can use this money to advertise the game. This is a win-win. Adds to being a member, and brings players to Warlight.

*Membership(costs). The only available option is $30 for lifetime. Warlight is basically saying that anything less is not worth it. Scratch that completley. Instead, lets do a $5 a month membership. Membership numbers will increase tenfold, bringing in more money, which brings more players through advertisement and maybe more features for members. Warlight would even make more money doing this than the $30 lifetime costs.

*6(player limit). This has to go. Asap. While members deserve the 24 players per game, the free 6 is not working. It should be doubled to 12. Within 5 turns of every game I play, at least half the people leave. I am sick and tired of this. It is ruining Warlight. There should be penalties for this. It is almost impossible to play a full and fair game without everyone leaving. It will be harder to accomplish this with 12. Plus, the game is just so much funner with more than 6 people, and there is a lack of members to catch any open games with more than 6.

*Penalty(time). Part of the above. When you get booted from a game, you shouldn't be allowed to join/open another one for a certain time. This really shouldn't be necessary but it has gotten out of control how often people do this.

*Refresh(old). This has to go as well. Why is it that I have to hit refresh or wait for it to load just to see how many people has joined a game, or to see new chat.

*Diplomatic(options). Right now, you either start off with the same team all game, or you have to trust your private chat. A diplomacy system(something like Red Alert) would be fantastic. You can do everything mid-game. Declare alliances. Declare war(only attack). Declare truce(cant attack until declare war). Every diplomatic action can float across the screen for a certain time and can be viewed in the diplomatic tab. This will change the way the game is played completely and will be a huge improvement.

*Personalize(social). Warlight needs to be more personal and social. Personalize profiles. Add friends. An official clan system. Games are so much better when you have friends you can play with. I don't have any friends on here to really play with since its hard to keep up with people.

This is just a tiny list of things Warlight can do to give a great gaming experience. The potential is there. I plan to do my part in adding to the players here at Warlight. Nobody has to give my thread any real thought but I just wanted to get myself out there. I'll be on the open games!
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 19:55:06


szeweningen 
Level 60
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1) Advertisement to the masses:

Unless you have funds for specific ads, warlight runs on viral advertisement, offering single player on sites like congregate etc., thought you are right, you could do some of this even by yourself or suggest where to put single player version. There are invite incentives, but they are very hard to implement (not sure if anyone has got a free membership because of invites so far)

2) Advertisement for free players:

Yes, it's a very good idea. Probably on homepage and community page would be sufficient and mildly annoying.

3) Membership:

Considering ladder structure and the fact that some of the tournaments can go on for months, it seems like buying a membership for a month makes no sense (not to mention if CLOT development goes forward, it'll reduce the incentives even more).

4) 6 player limit:

Yeah, you're definitely wrong here. The competetive scene goes from 1vs1 to 3vs3 games, very rarely 4vs4. Big games are a privilege for members and rightfully so, it's the same type of incentive as the luck settings are. Most bigger games are ffa's or chat games, they have little competetive value, more structural/fun value. I don't really see the argument why to enable bigger games since there is little to no difference in gameplay between 12-player games and 24-player games. Also if you are worried about people leaving, implement open seat prerequisites, the better the player, the less chance there is of him leaving.

5) Penalty time:

You'd have to be more specific about that. Also you can use open seat prerequisites for your games, so a penalty for beeing booted seems unfair, a high boot rate is penalty enough since no good player will play with you.

6) Refresh:

There is automatic refresh option, it might seem slow, but it's good for the servers. Considering it's an indie game the servers have been working very well so far and making a 1-sec refresh for all games would definitely do a lot of harm there.

7) Diplomatic:

That was brought up many times, a diplomacy system in ffa games is already on uservoice, search for it there, you can vote on it.

8) Social:

It'd be hard for a few reasons:
- there is no e-mail verification
- it'd require another server for the data upkeep
- only one person codes everything, so making steam-like community may be hard.
If you have specific solutions to any of those problems, you're welcome to share.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 19:57:24


[WG] Warlightvet 
Level 16
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everyone agrees about advertisements, it's been discussed before.
membership costs have also been discussed before, and tbh i wouldn't pay 5$/month, at least for life i can leave and come back and don't feel obligated to take advantage of it
6 player limit: ever heard of open seat prerequisites? 10% or less boot rate and suddenly no one gets booted ^^
diplomatic relations have been discussed before, just play with people you trust/know
refresh... does refresh automatically every few seconds....
the "personalize" thing already exists... (invite list), just disactivate the auto-add to invite list for everyone you play with

good luck and have fun (;
i do agree that this is the best game out there
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 19:58:04


[WG] Warlightvet 
Level 16
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sorry for double post:
man, you have 27% boot rate
stop getting booted yourself before complaining about others ^^
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 19:58:35


[WG] Warlightvet 
Level 16
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triple post! sorry szew, i wrote that before you said anything
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 20:35:53


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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I think most people agree that the advertisements to 'free' players is almost a necessity. While I admire that Fizzer is trying to do this all without advertisements, it just makes no sense when that extra revenue would allow him to bring more people into a 'team' and make things so much easier for him personally. It would also allow new features to come out more rapidly etc.

I respect you as a newer player coming out and making this post though. It's very uplifting to see some new players love the game just as much as the old players do! While I may not agree with the majority of your post, the nature of it made me smile a bit.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 21:08:16


Min34 
Level 60
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I think that WarLight should be advertised more somehow. It is a great strategy game (one of the best I`ve ever pleyed) but it seems that we do not reach a lot of people.

Advertisement for non-members is a good option, but most of the players have already agreed on that and it has been suggested multiple times (that does mean that it was a
very good idea of you (maybe a bit easy to think of))
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 21:24:48


Moros 
Level 50
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The $5 a month could work, but the lifetime membership for $30 needs to stay. That way you can first try membership for a month to see if you really like it, before buying a lifetime membership.
I don't completely agree with penalty time. Getting booted is not always intentional, there are people out there with bad internet.
And there's already an invite list, I don't really see the difference with a friends list.
And what is left to personalize about profiles? You can already set the picture, tagline, bio, what info to show and a few maps too.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 21:51:47


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Actually there is one more thing. For example on steam all the games have achievements, for example Portal2 has ~50 achievemtns that you unlock through play in every possible mode. Here it's only single-player stars. During summer when I have more time I might make tutorial videos combined with a series of challenges (in a more-less test form like my recent warlight quiz).
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 22:18:12


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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Very Notable Post.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 23:02:21


Genghis 
Level 54
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Dude , I remember Red Alert ! I loved that game !
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/5/2013 23:54:00


x 
Level 58
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Warlight, you have so much potential ... I hate to see you sitting around all day in your underwear playing computer games. Why don't you go out and make something of yourself? You would really be a catch if you just smartened yourself up a bit.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 00:04:55


Emma Goldman
Level 2
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Self-counseling tends to be ineffective, x.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 00:34:03

RvW 
Level 46
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What I would really like to talk about is the potential this game has and some feedback from a fairly new player. I know some of you think that tips from a new player about the direction of Warlight is unwelcome, because most online games/boards of this small size usually have a group of vets who have been here since the beginning that think they run everything. I've seen it happen on so many games of similiar size and every time it turns off a majority of new players.

Feedback from new(er) players is most definitely welcome; it's a great way to get a fresh perspective. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to come barging in, declare you're new, then blindly assume something about "a group of vets who have been here since the beginning that think they run everything"... Doesn't seem like a great way to make friends.

*Advertisement(to the masses). Simply put, there are not enough people for multiplayer to run efficiently. I play this all day and I am constantly waiting for a game to open or for people to join a game I create. This is another way to turn off new and old players alike. I like the invitation system but there is no incentive to invite people. Perhaps a reward system, or even granting people membership for a limited time, for inviting every certain amount of people. We(Warliglht) needs to use every means necessary to get us out there. People will come, they just need to know.

Are you sure you're not too impatient? To be fair, I don't play real-time games, so you might have a point, it's just that I can't remember having heard this complaint before.
The incentive for inviting new players is having friends to play with. If you go sit in a room together, you won't have to wait for your game to fill up; your friends can join right away!
Giving rewards for invites is a very abusable system. What would prevent someone from inviting a million dummy addresses (my.address+1@gmail.com...)?

*Advertisement(for free players). While I do love the ad-free nature of Warlight, it should be a members only luxory. Nothing excessive of course. But Warlight can use this money to advertise the game. This is a win-win. Adds to being a member, and brings players to Warlight.

Please be careful with the word "should". This is Fizzer's site. In my experience he listens to feedback very well, but in the end it's his site, he alone decides what "should" happen. Besides, some people think any advertisement at all is excessive.

*Membership(costs). The only available option is $30 for lifetime. Warlight is basically saying that anything less is not worth it. Scratch that completley. Instead, lets do a $5 a month membership. Membership numbers will increase tenfold, bringing in more money, which brings more players through advertisement and maybe more features for members. Warlight would even make more money doing this than the $30 lifetime costs.

WL is basically saying that anything less is not worth the hassle, overhead and additional administration, is that what you are saying? (I know it's not; I hope you get my point.)

*6(player limit). This has to go. Asap. While members deserve the 24 players per game, the free 6 is not working. It should be doubled to 12. Within 5 turns of every game I play, at least half the people leave. I am sick and tired of this. It is ruining Warlight. There should be penalties for this. It is almost impossible to play a full and fair game without everyone leaving. It will be harder to accomplish this with 12. Plus, the game is just so much funner with more than 6 people, and there is a lack of members to catch any open games with more than 6.

If you think this is such a severe limitation, why don't you get a membership? You could wait six months to get it if you prefer (save up five bucks a month, the price you yourself suggested, and after six months you'll have the thirty dollar that will get you a lifetime membership). You wanted an incentive to get a membership, here you have it! :)
If you don't like people leaving, you can use open seat prerequisites. Giving penalties is difficult, since there are valid reasons for leaving a game (in real-time games even something as stupid as a connection problem can get you booted). By the way, if you ask nicely, there might be a member willing to create a 6+ player game for you.

*Penalty(time). Part of the above. When you get booted from a game, you shouldn't be allowed to join/open another one for a certain time. This really shouldn't be necessary but it has gotten out of control how often people do this.

As has been pointed out, you yourself have a 24% boot rate. Seems like a case of "the pot calling the kettle black" to me.
Something which you might have overlooked: prereqs! I mentioned them above. If you don't like to wait for open games, a possible reason is that WL hides any open games for which you do not meet the prerequisites. Most prereqs I've seen for maximum boot rate are around 10% to 15%. Your boot rate is much higher than that, which will cause a lot of open games to be invisible to you!

*Refresh(old). This has to go as well. Why is it that I have to hit refresh or wait for it to load just to see how many people has joined a game, or to see new chat.

To reduce the amount of work the server has to do. Servers are very expensive, it's as easy as that.

*Diplomatic(options). Right now, you either start off with the same team all game, or you have to trust your private chat. A diplomacy system(something like Red Alert) would be fantastic. You can do everything mid-game. Declare alliances. Declare war(only attack). Declare truce(cant attack until declare war). Every diplomatic action can float across the screen for a certain time and can be viewed in the diplomatic tab. This will change the way the game is played completely and will be a huge improvement.

I agree it will change the game completely. Whether or not it would be an improvement is an entirely different question! You might like it more like that, but that does not mean other people feel the same way. For instance, in the Risk boardgame there is no (enforced) diplomacy system either; I for one like it that way.

*Personalize(social). Warlight needs to be more personal and social. Personalize profiles. Add friends. An official clan system. Games are so much better when you have friends you can play with. I don't have any friends on here to really play with since its hard to keep up with people.

Then invite some of your friends, what's stopping you? The invite list works more or less like a friend list, have you checked that out already?
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 00:36:19


x 
Level 58
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missed you, RvW
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 03:50:40


Master ARC 
Level 57
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One more potential suggestion/addition:

Active Light in Profiles:
Kind of like Facebook, there should definitely be a place on WarLight profile pages that tells whether the person is online or not. I couldn't tell you how many times I have tried to invite my clan members of IRL friends to games, only to find out that they have left, despite being online mere seconds before.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 06:05:23


farragut 
Level 58
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Few websites have given me the same level of enjoyment as Warlight (all that porn is not going to download itself!) :-)

It is an honor to be in a position to help others become members.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 07:21:57

mosquitero_retired
Level 40
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Question is:

why dont you discuss all this with Fizzer directly? I mean: do you want the communities absolution while presenting your ideas here in the forum? Maybe you want the community itself to present ideas how to improve WL. But if i remember correctly, there was a voting system for Warlight. Moreover, maybe Fizzer is not really interested to advertise the game in order zillions of nine day wonder players crowd this website.

The real problem of this game is its complexity. Noobs quickly find out they need hundrets of games to have a chance winning games versus experienced players. And even small changes in the settings when someone creates a game leads to totally different game dynamics. For example just the change from weighed round to straight round entails many changes you have to be aware of. Most of the unexperienced players are annoyed with this, because it does not meet their expectations to have a chance of winning such a game. Thus they lose and also lose interest in WL and turn to one of the uncountable other games out there.

I remember when WL was advertized on Kongregate, i think it was in Oct 2011. All in a sudden tons of new players could be found in the game lobby. But like a wave they came and went, only a few of them got the hang of this game. So WL is a typical niche game that sure found/finds some enthousiasts, but it does NOT have the potential as a mainstream game, nowadays you just have too many choices. I d say its most enticing for those who also like a game like chess but also want some luck component in it that does it make a little more forgiving with respect of bad moves, compared to chess.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 12:37:11


Mian 
Level 54
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For now I guess the main problem in the game is the limited audience it still has. If ads can speed up the evolution, maybe it's a solution, but it has to be a clear project with numbered objectives, because the ad-free thing is just great and should be cautiously preserved as long as the game goes on and calls more players to compete with us "oldies".
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 14:28:13


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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Does warlight need a larger audience? It certainly hasnt improved 4chan, reddit, starcraft, call of duty, imgur, tumblr, facebook, google...
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 14:56:24


Aranka 
Level 43
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Personally I do think this game would benefit from a larger audience playing the games.
Especially when it comes to competitve play and tournies it's like each player knows each other already and you can already predict the runners for the top spaces in tournies right from the start (an occasional exception excluded)
Personally I don't think warlight should be about reading into the game plan of a certain opponent but starting each game with a fresh new outlook on things.
Now I won't deny the familiarity we have right now doesn't have it's charm, it's only durable for the short term.
For the future of warlight we must have a gradual inflow of new players.....even if that means attracting a more mainstream audience of which only a small percentage will stay.

Ways to keep new players motivated ?
- The allocation of oldies to help with the basics for new players (Noob school idea)
- Actual implementations of clans and not just like now with members making an alliance game which they never start in order to have the option of chatting with each other
- Personal message box option on the forum or with the profile
- On/off online status for players
- Automatic games which take into account the inexperience of players. Personally I've played lots of 1vs1 automatic games when inexperienced players joined me. While this gives me the opportunity to give them advice, it's hard not to make this advice seem mocking since the difference in skill and chances is enormous. For me it's not fun, nor is fun for an opponent to lose in such a way.
I would believe that a lot more players would stay if they could face opponents who are struggling with the same problems. Is it possible to implement an auto-game based on amount of games or maximum win percentage ?? (with the former there is a problem of stat mastrubators who would prefer remaking an account to erase their "horrible noob period stat defaluation"...idiots)

All the ideas listed above here is to enhance the community feeling and to sort of apply peer pressure/motivation to keep them trying it out.

Now I know I'll get some of the more veteran users here against me with these notions, but it's my personal opinion with regards to how warlight could best improve themselves.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 15:31:15


Perrin3088 
Level 44
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*Personally I don't think warlight should be about reading into the game plan of a certain opponent but starting each game with a fresh new outlook on things. *

I agree absolutely on this..
but no matter how great the audience, there will always be people that play more often and are more well known, I was highly in favor of anonymous games since the day I first joined WL, and still believe it would be an invaluable asset to the game...
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 16:16:31


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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Everyone who plays with multiaccounts agrees with you I think Perrin. It sure is annoying when people guess my moves *glares at timi*
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 17:11:33


Ironheart
Level 53
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I came in through kong and since warlight has take the time i used to spent on kong anyway what will be good was if warlight gave members more single player levels.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/6/2013 21:38:35


x 
Level 58
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Okay Warlight, I've pulled a few strings and got you an interview. I think you'd do really great, if only you'd apply yourself a little bit. Come on, let's go shopping and get you some decent clothes. Hey, don't be like that. I really believe in you, Warlight!
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/7/2013 06:43:46


ps 
Level 60
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have you submitted your ideas to uservoice yet? have you taken a few minutes to check the other ideas listed there and vote on your favorites? i strongly recommend you to do so.

http://warlight.uservoice.com/
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/7/2013 08:44:09


StormFront
Level 31
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Thanks for the link ps.
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/9/2013 00:28:58

RvW 
Level 46
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Iron, the problem with single player levels is that, by definition, you fight the AI. While it is not perfectly predictable, it has a few well-known weaknesses which can be exploited. Just look at the last level (which I personally never got close to beating): you're fighting two teams of three AIs all by yourself. Sure, part of winning is those two teams weakening each other, but still, if such a scenario is winnable by very good players, what further single player levels do you suggest?
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/9/2013 02:34:17

Hennns
Level 58
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The last single-player challenge is not the one you`re talking about RvW, in the last you`re the "North" against the "South". and the South is a team consisting of 5 AIs while you`re alone. This one is called the Insane Challenge.

The one you`re talking about is The Crazy Challenge, the next to last Single-player challenge ;)

Otherwise I agree whit what you say :)
Is this the first time RvW have his facts wrong? o_0
Warlight has so much potential...: 2/9/2013 11:52:50


Ironheart
Level 53
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Actually there are lots of novelty maps and they could make interesting single players just give ais an edge and you a disadvantage.
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