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Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:18:57


TheThedde
Level 62
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10+ players got no games from the current timeslot for no real reason... I sincerely hope this gets fixed.
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:19:35


Hodop 
Level 59
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Can't say I relate or understand, but I am with you!
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:20:54


Skapis9999
Level 60
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Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:21:41


TheThedde
Level 62
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This image from Skapis show how many got players got no games from the current time slot as you can see we in TLA are not very happy about this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/821715239657668619/821717214436261888/unknown.png
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:22:41


TheThedde
Level 62
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Sorry for posting it again, Skapis btw :D
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:23:31


{TLA} LND
Level 59
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Yes, not ideal - hopefully this can be fixed easily and quickly!
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:24:29


Ocean0.1 
Level 59
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It might be related to ur clan war rating (-104.1 for me on app) :P
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:27:51


Skapis9999
Level 60
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what's clan rating? I could not find anything in the blog post by Fizzer
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:30:59


Ocean0.1 
Level 59
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Win increase it
Losses decrease it

https://imgur.com/a/91kQmBB
Here’s where I found it. Matchmaking prob gave the higher clan war clans priority in the matchmaking so a bunch of TLA were left behind
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:34:17


Skapis9999
Level 60
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http://prntscr.com/10o5saj for me in a browser
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:35:05


Johnny Silverhand 
Level 57
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It's not a bug. It matches the people with top rating vs each other and works its way down. TLA is near the bottom, so most of the people at the bottom were TLA, and it couldn't match them vs each other.
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:35:12


Ocean0.1 
Level 59
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Browser is updated to not show negatives ig
My app is still on the last update so it shows negative
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:36:44


Skapis9999
Level 60
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Ok let's say that it follows what you say. Why no games were created?
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:47:32


JK_3 
Level 61
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why isn't the system build like QM? where it slowly expands the rating range to look for players after a giving time?

if it stays like this, the -104 from the test season will block half of the games for TLA for the foreseeable future....
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:48:40


Johnny Silverhand 
Level 57
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> Ok let's say that it follows what you say. Why no games were created?

Already explained.

You can't play vs each other.

There's no "time" involved at all. Everyone else got a match. The only people left to match the members vs would be each other.

Edited 3/17/2021 12:49:23
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 12:54:07


JK_3 
Level 61
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> The only people left to match the members vs would be each other.

Loading, ChinaMan, KoRni and priamus also didn't get a game, so at least 4 other games could have been made without having a TLA vs TLA match (obviously the rating prevented it, but 2 people without a game is better then 10 people without a game)



Edited 3/17/2021 12:54:13
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 13:04:35


Johnny Silverhand 
Level 57
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I don't think rating prevents any matches.

ie. If just a Python and a TLA join, they should get matched vs each other.

I think the people you're thinking it should have matched together didn't select the same templates, or they would have been matched together.


Loading... Strat 1v1
Xanderaka Small Earth 1 Wasteland
ChinaMan Small Earth ComBomb
KoЯni MME Commander LD

That's the free wins.

Priamus was likely in MME Commander LD with his clanmate, so got no game, and then all the TLA with no game were in Small Earth, where they were the only unmatched people.
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 13:15:18


Xanderaka
Level 60
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So it was just really unlucky that the only people who could not get a game in SE were all from TLA
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 13:19:26


Ursus 
Level 64
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no not unlucky, it's related to the rating and because your clan's rating is far below 0 they get matches as one fo the last, because it starts matching the clans with highest ratings.
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 13:36:31


Timinator • apex 
Level 66
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still the matchmaker should try to make as many matchups as possible. having TLA miss out with 6 players is not how it should work
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 13:37:47


Ursus 
Level 64
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I agree with that, I think this should be fixed. But I think this is how it works at the moment. Or it matches people with ratings closest first.
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 21:03:39


kynte
Level 42
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So, basically it's a vicious cycle. TLA doesn't get matches but there's enough of them that at least some get matches (on templates that they sign up for), so they get byes. But byes (not free wins) count as losses for rating purposes. So TLA's rating gets dragged down. So the matchmaking algorithm deals with TLA last. So TLA doesn't get matches, but they get byes. And the cycle starts over again.

I see 3 fixes that should solve this vicious cycle:
1. Stop counting byes as losses. I'm not sure if this is happening, I just gathered it from Rento's explanation, and why a bye would count as a loss makes no sense to me.
2. Use a good matchmaking algorithm. Matchmaking is a solved problem, isomorphic to some or other matching problem. Using min-weight graph matching with disallowed edges should get you close to an ideal matchmaker that creates as many games as possible with reasonable rating differences. What we're seeing here is the pitfall of a simple greedy algorithm. If Fizzer is interested in going down this route, I can help. It's most likely just a matter of finding or cannibalizing an existing library for min-weight matching.
3. Randomize which players get matchmade first. You can keep the ordering (from highest to lowest rating), even, but just start in the middle (e.g., start with a randomly-selected player, matchmake lower-rated players if there are any, and then matchmake the higher-rated players if there are any).

Hope we get a fix to this in 5.12! Seems like the status quo vicious cycle makes Clan Wars less-than-fun for some clans, like TLA, and might hamper participation.

Edited 3/17/2021 21:05:13
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 21:04:40


Hotarian 
Level 59
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Fizzer went over this yesterday dude, were you not in the stream?
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 21:07:01


kynte
Level 42
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I wasn't, no. It was during work hours for me. I'm just responding to the thread and what Rento relayed about what Fizzer said on stream. Specifically:

Fizzer answered on stream yesterday.
If any of your clanmates got a match on the template you signed up for, no free win for you.
otherwise a clan could sign up 40 members for one template and get tons of free wins
was the argument
and it keeps happening to TLA because apparently they are the lowest rated clan, and matchmaking goes from top rated to bottom rated, so it gives byes to TLA whenever possible
also, byes count as losses (to the rating), as evidenced my Nestlings rating being negative after test season with their only game being a bye win.
so you keep getting byes because your rating is terrible and the byes lower your rating so you keep getting more byes, is what I understand


This screams design gap to me, and so I laid out the gap I see (to make it clear) and shared three fixes that came to mind. Did Fizzer mention on stream that he was working on some sort of fix? As far as I understand, Fizzer is not aware of the vicious cycle problem and on stream yesterday he merely talked about how he designed the system. Obviously, just because something is by design doesn't mean that it's working as it should be: design gaps are a common cause of bugs in software.

Edited 3/17/2021 21:07:50
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 22:35:42


{TLA} LND
Level 59
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Well if that's how it works, it should be changed - it should favour complete matching over accurate matching, I think. Otherwise yeah, the system is effectively rigged against low rated clans, whether that's intended or not. Maybe this issue might lessen if more players join (and therefore more lower-rated clans) but I still think it's and issue, and needs to be fixed; if you've got 20 players queued for a template, you should be prioritising getting 10 inaccurate matchups, as opposed to getting 5 accurate ones and having 10 players miss out.
Matchmaking in Clan Wars i bugged: 3/17/2021 22:39:22


JK_3 
Level 61
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Rento (and maybe others) already reported this as a bug, and Fizzer is working on this
Posts 1 - 26 of 26