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On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 20:48:49


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Hello,

On Warlight forum there have been multiple bashing/defending threads about multiple topics that lay in the grey area, somewhere between rules and morality. Stalling, booting, that and more different topics have occupied many players and we've seen multiple angles players take from both experienced and new. Anyway I wanted to share some of my opinions on what makes a good player, not in terms of skill, but rather in terms of community/fairness.

Issue #1: Ladder stalling

I'm starting with this one for two reasons. First, it's very current issue-wise considering the amount of ladder exploitation that has been done in the past few months, second it's very current, because of piggy's all-out rage. Now, let's start with saying that anything we have against ladder stalling has to be biased considering it's not breaking the rules in any direct way. Technically you are always allowed to play untill elimination. My bias and my take on this comes straight from my deep appreciation for the competetive side of warlight. Many players play this game only for fun, but for me personally good competition and overall progress was most important when it comes to playing the game. Now if we join any type of ladder we should assume that most other players also join for this very reason, the only difference between normal games and ladder games is that the latter try to establish your skill based on games you play and how often you win. Based on your performance you can see who should be better than you and who should be worse. It is a system that is made for people with appreciation of deep in-game mechanics that should work like I just described. However the system is not perfect, by delaying your losses you can artificially increase your rating to get to higher spots. Now, of course you are a free-being, you can delude yourself however you want into thinking you're much better than in reality as long as it does not hurt anyone else. However in that case, with all I said in mind it should become quite apparent that you make the system impossible to work for all those that want to play legitimately, who do have an appreciation for sportsmanship. Now the difference between me and piggy is that it's not really rage inducing for me, it's more sad for me in the context of a flawed system, however that was discussed multiple times separately. I'm not really that angry at people who stall, I feel more pity, becasue let's be frank, stalling in order to show something is a bit like getting an achievement on steam for successfully installing a game. All in all I'd only like to stress that what you do on ladders does not affect only you, nor only your direct oppponents.

Issue#2: Booting

This is much more of an issue for newer players. Again, booting is never against the rules, it is part of the system. That said in my experience among bettter players the boot button is hardly ever used since basically all players care about is to get a decent game. In multiday it happens almost only when it stalls a tournament (I have NEVER seen a boot in a casual md game). In rt games you always have to ask in chat, internet disconnection/software problems/real life can all get in the way of your game so just take a chill pill and don't boot, especially if you wait a long time for a game to start. I sincerely believe that if your primary goal is to get a good game, everything else will follow. if it's not your primary goal, I'll predict you'll end up on many, many blacklists.

Issue#3: Alt accounts

I'm not even going to bother tackling the issue as whole, it'd take too much time and I'm currently very tired. Anyway I'll still look at alt accounts through the prism of competetive gaming. Now let me make it clear, any kind of act with multiple accounts/teams by the same player on one ladder is giving him/her an unfair advantage over others. First case is easy, if you are paired against yourself one of your accounts will get an undeserved boost. Second, it allows you for multiple "runs" (considering current ladder full of stalling almost requires 15-game runs) while other players don't have that many chances. Third and most important, since it is universal, you get to pick where your main focus is. Let me explain it in detail. Ladder tried to asess your skill based on the games you play, however it can only do that with a certain variation. The more games you play, the more accurate your rank is. Now, in the long run (when you play infinite games with both (all?) your accounts) both ratings will be the same, however since we live in a finite world you only play a handful of gameson both and you get several "partial" ratings. Still since you play with both you can always choose the one that's doing better. If A is the probability of you achieving a certain rating/rank on the ladder always P(A)<1-(1-P(A))^2. Overall I can safely say alt account did not help the community. On the contrary, it started a lot of manipulation, distrust and the socialising aspect of warlight seems to die down beneath thousands of alt corpses.





If there's anything of value in here it's only advise for all of you, be better players, think of your impact on others, let yourself lose once in a while, it's ok, trust me. And stop using alts if possible, I can only naively hope it's a fad that will die out (it won't :( ).

Kind regards
szeweningen
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 21:00:19


The National Socialist
Level 54
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Whoa, wheres the TLDR police?
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 21:01:12


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Great post SZE!

Edited 8/15/2014 21:01:22
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 21:07:28


master of desaster 
Level 65
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pretty much the Problems we have atm.

the ladder issue could be solved relative easily as we discussed in multiple threads

Normally noobs stop booting everybody if they understand better how the game works.

And about the alt Thing it would help a lot, if you would Need to confirm your email adress at least. it wouldn't solve the alt Problem, but it would probably improve the Situation.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 21:10:42


UltraLawlz
Level 55
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Very well put and objective.

Warlight is our sandbox. The significant community involvement in the creation of maps tournaments and custom games make warlight what it is. As a community driven game it lives and dies on the community that is involved.

As individuals that enjoy this game and desire its continued success we must take care and be responsible for our individual actions. This includes stalling trolling etc. There are things that are in "good fun" and there are things that are just plain rude.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 21:43:08


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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WarLight isn't our sandbox. The additions to the site are exclusively decided by Fizzer. This is why the ladder remains flawed. This is why so many issues have never been resolved. If WL was a sandbox, it would be possible to change things quickly. As it stands, we need to make Fizzer take notice. Unlike so many other games, he seems not to have an active community prescence anymore - a great shame.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 22:08:50


{rp} Clavicus Vile 
Level 55
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Nice post and I agree. People can stall, and added restrictions by Fizzer might just have an overall more negative effect for regular players. It's not a huge issue. If people want to stall for a trophy, well that's doable. Atleast they cannot stall for the prestige. I am grateful for them being called out on what they are doing whenever it happens.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 22:18:01


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 23:08:09


Bananashake 
Level 60
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You forgot that problem with really good maps being refused to go public
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 23:12:07


The National Socialist
Level 54
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Do we really need another dual map? Lol
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 23:36:06


Bananashake 
Level 60
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uhm.. dah!!
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 23:36:30


Incaman
Level 56
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szeweningen, very nice post from you :D too bad that nobody is listening. The very same people that are you trying to reach really don't care.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 23:48:40


Mudderducker 
Level 57
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I read, I thought, I agreed.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 23:56:34


Gundisalvus 
Level 58
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Countering stalling is fairly easy: when you are up against an opponent who is obviously stalling, tell his opponents in a private mail. Then, they will start stalling against the staller, which would render his efforts useless. Problem solved.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/15/2014 23:56:52


Ottoman Emperor 
Level 57
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Ottoman Emperor liked this.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 00:01:45


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Edit: Thanks darkpie ;)

Edited 8/16/2014 00:08:40
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 00:05:12


Darkpie 
Level 61
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@MoD

tell his opponents in a private mail.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 01:05:26


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Depends Kasperov. If they are already placed high more stalling does nothing.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 01:49:17


{rp} Clavicus Vile 
Level 55
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You can't stop them. Let them have their vain glory and showcase it to the rest, so anybody that would normally care(forum readers, community tab peerers) can see. Reveal and move on, no point putting so much energy into it.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 04:46:13


Gnullbegg 
Level 49
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I feel compelled to add that I thoroughly enjoyed Fridge's take on the issue. That is to say his comment.

Fridge: Well put.

Sir.

I applaud you.

*applauds*
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 08:25:17


Ska2D2 
Level 55
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+1 sze. A thoughtful and interesting post.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 08:32:32


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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Gnullbegg
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 14:03:44


brisk • apex 
Level 58
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3983758
what about offers that are made in order to reach 1st place on ladder for a day in order to get a trophy? what do you think about them?
oh sorry, I didn't know it was supposed to be a joke. well, you really can't convey sarcasm through internet. next time you should use more emoticons like ;) so we will understand you are making a joke.
and lets not forget you stalled this game at the same time: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3935134

for those who don't get it, ribena and unknown were #1 at that time, sze and gnuffone #2 and dreuj and me #3. sze wanted to reach #1 and quit the ladder to have a trophy on his profile. so he made a suggestion as you can see in his game against unknownsoldier and ribena, while stalling the game against dreuj and I when it was clearly over.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 15:18:38

Ruthless Bastard 
Level 62
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Good post. I liked dead piggys rage post too.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/16/2014 15:49:48


MysteryManBall
Level 35
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¡perfect spanish! Me gusta la banda de rodadura agradables mensajes ¡perfect spanish!
On the condition of warlight players: 8/17/2014 12:57:59


szeweningen 
Level 60
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brisk, anyone who knows me here (and I assumed Ribena and unknown did) would know I was joking, which I explicitly said... Also the game against you I did not stall, it was strategically lost on turn 3, however there was the possibility of you choosing a wrong strategic plan like going greedily in asia and forgetting europe while brisk could make risky moves and get eliminated in ca. I surrendered on turn 10 where there was absolutely no chance. With light fog I'd surrender 2 turns earlier maybe.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/17/2014 13:48:12


UltraLawlz
Level 55
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Brisk if you watched warlight weekly you would know that Sze is a cyborg and when he jokes it is through great pain and trepidation. So emoticons etc. would just be to much for him to bear!



P.S.


THE ZING MACHINE IS ON OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/17/2014 17:31:30


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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brisk, anyone who knows me here (and I assumed Ribena and unknown did) would know I was joking, which I explicitly said... Also the game against you I did not stall, it was strategically lost on turn 3, however there was the possibility of you choosing a wrong strategic plan like going greedily in asia and forgetting europe while brisk could make risky moves and get eliminated in ca. I surrendered on turn 10 where there was absolutely no chance. With light fog I'd surrender 2 turns earlier maybe.


It still looks sketchy. You said that you had hoped dreuj to greedily take Asia and forget Europe, but you see a big stack at turn 7..

Here's your speed:



So you see the stack in Europe, but you continue 3 turns anyway at conveniently 2-days+? How bad of a misplay were you looking for?

Say you do eliminate brisk in CA, how exactly are you supposed to proceed? Gift Gnuffles West Africa so he can hit a neutral the same turn brisk takes Africa? Dreuj can take an EC territory and let brisk expand there. Surely you realized the loss before the 3 turns you took at 2 days+. You don't say in chat you had to go anywhere and apologize for not finishing RT like you had started. I get that playing slow happens in lost games, but we should see 1 turn here to make it clear that you lost, you know.. the turn where dreuj doesn't back off Europe, and brisk doesn't make a misplay in CA. Given your own words.

I don't think your career has been littered with stalling, but that game was stalled for whatever reason.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/18/2014 01:17:28


Master Turtle 
Level 61
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Great post.
On the condition of warlight players: 8/18/2014 02:27:12

_Revealed_
Level 54
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Fantastic post!

Edited 8/18/2014 02:27:39
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