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Banned books: Why?: 2/2/2021 05:14:15

Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prinz von Preußen
Level 56
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Some I understand, like Looking for Alaska, which I've heard has highly sexual content. Some make sense, but not really, like Harry Potter. Some are classics, and therefore SHOULD NOT BE BANNED, like The Great Gatsby. Then there are those that just outright make 0 sense to ban, like anything by Dr. Seuss. Why are people this shallow and delicate? It makes no sense! Some children's books that we own have been banned because they are "sexual" or "promote drugs, disobedience, and communism". What the hell?? They were written and published for children! Does anyone else have opinions and/or reasons for these nonsensical bans?
Banned books: Why?: 2/2/2021 05:25:19


Darth Grover
Level 51
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The banning of books is asinine idiocy. Doesn't matter what their content is.
Banned books: Why?: 2/2/2021 07:58:34


RainB00ts
Level 43
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You gonna talk about about books that have been deplatformed by Amazon or are you going to talk about books that got anathemized by a few christian parent groups lol
Banned books: Why?: 2/2/2021 09:02:09


{Canidae} Kretoma 
Level 59
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I don't get the point of the post. It mentions normal books and not books that are ACTUALLY BANNED like Mein Kampf. I am confused. Don't you live in America, the most free country there is?
Banned books: Why?: 2/2/2021 14:25:43

Orannis
Level 57
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To Kill a Mockingbird was banned here for the longest time because it was considered racist, even though the moral of the story is racism bad. I believe censoring that book is racist in itself.
Banned books: Why?: 2/2/2021 16:57:54


καλλιστηι
Level 60
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When I was graduating high school, we had to pick 20 books to read and talk about. We could choose from ~150 books, including Lolita, Sufferings of Prince Sternenhoch, The Great Gatsby. Excluding Harry Potter.
I guess every country is different.
Banned books: Why?: 2/3/2021 20:38:26


luftwaffle
Level 54
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When I was graduating high school, we had to pick 20 books to read and talk about. We could choose from ~150 books, including Lolita, Sufferings of Prince Sternenhoch, The Great Gatsby. Excluding Harry Potter.


Woah, that sounds quite cool, honestly. As for me, I just had to read mostly useless junk.... and far too much of it in high school.

@Georg clarify in what way these books are banned, I cannot get a clear idea of what you mean by "banned" from your post

To Kill a Mockingbird was banned here for the longest time because it was considered racist, even though the moral of the story is racism bad. I believe censoring that book is racist in itself.


It doesn't surprise me, to be fair. I've seen (and keep seeing) this kind of narrative: it's too complicated for kids to understand the situation from the time this book was written, so we should not teach it in school because it gives the wrong idea. I absolutely agree that it is bullshit to ban To Kill a Mockingbird. It's as if somebody banned 1984 because it's anti-democratic. Whoever sanctions such a ban did not really understand the book.
The way I see it is that in some circles, it becomes "racist" just to talk about racism. Frankly, it becomes taboo. That's also the kind of behavior you might see with people insisting that black people should not be identified by their skin color (because acknowledging that a black is black is somehow racist). I think it plays into the picture of the narrative, which desperately tries to gag the public from discussing racism, or race, for that matter. What next, are we gonna pretend systemic racism was never a thing to protect our kids? Sure, let's just cancel WWII from history books while we're at it. Kids today wouldn't understand.
Banned books: Why?: 2/3/2021 20:45:54


RainB00ts
Level 43
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High schooler: I can't wait for college, now I won't have to read young adult horseshit anymore and I can read stuff like Shakespeare

The assigned book for English 101: the hate u give

Edited 2/3/2021 20:46:20
Banned books: Why?: 2/3/2021 21:20:21


neverdeverd 
Level 55
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So what have we learned today? America dumb, Netherlands gut.
Banned books: Why?: 2/4/2021 20:52:12


luftwaffle
Level 54
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High schooler: I can't wait for college, now I won't have to read young adult horseshit anymore and I can read stuff like Shakespeare


Eh? we read Shakespeare in high school...
if anything, high school needs more "young adult horseshit" instead of books whose intended audiences certainly aren't children
Banned books: Why?: 2/4/2021 21:05:07


RainB00ts
Level 43
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if anything, high school needs more "young adult horseshit" instead of books whose intended audiences certainly aren't children


Hurr 16 year olds should be reading harry potter because duh shakespeer is 2 hard 2 read hurr
Banned books: Why?: 2/4/2021 23:44:40


boxfaec
Level 24
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Hurr 16 year olds should be reading harry potter because duh shakespeer is 2 hard 2 read hurr
No one's saying that; you're just putting words in waffle's mouth because you are weirdly committed to your belief but lack the ability to defend it against an actually decent argument.

It honestly sounds to me like your problem is that your own school sucks and teaches below your level, or perhaps you're in the lower-level classes where they give you lame books to try and motivate you to read. I've never even heard of the hate u give, but looking at the book, it seems like it has literary merit although it's clearly written for teenagers and tries to be relatable to them. It doesn't seem like the kind of book you'd read because Shakespeare is too hard; it's the kind you'd read for the same reason people would watch The VVitch instead of Metropolis and Casablanca in modern introductory film classes, to keep them interested and to give them a gentler step up into the concepts.

Honestly I think the people making high school reading lists have way too much of a fetish for "the Classics"; it's not like Dickens was considered sophisticated material in his time. He was innovative, sure, but just reading Dickens and Shakespeare and the like over and over again dulls your reading skills and denies you the chance to build literary analysis abilities. I'd love to swap out Julius Caesar and Great Expectations in a curriculum for, say, Trainspotting and Middlesex.

Maybe you're just not like other kids or something and want to tell us that you're very smart because you can read Shakespeare. In that case, congratulations, you can read.

Does anyone else have opinions and/or reasons for these nonsensical bans?
Karens. Maybe we can learn a thing or two from the Tatmadaw and copy the Karen genocide.

Edited 2/4/2021 23:50:53
Banned books: Why?: 2/5/2021 05:28:54

Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prinz von Preußen
Level 56
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Sorry, haven't been able to look for awhile.
By banned, I mean banned from at least one library or school. Tons of books have been banned from school and/or libraries for ridiculous reasons. These include seemingly normal books and books that should be in a school. Some editions of the Webster dictionary have been banned for including some words in the English language. Other books have been banned for producing a negative message, when the book was written to fight that given message. Racism is popular.
Banned books: Why?: 2/5/2021 05:30:48

Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prinz von Preußen
Level 56
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Whoever was saying young adult books are good: Please give some examples. To me, they all seem to be crap.
Whoever was saying Shakespeare books are good: No. Just.....no.
Banned books: Why?: 2/5/2021 08:40:25


berdan131
Level 59
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Hmmm, if only I could find the cause of this....

Must be cause of famous Western freedom, democracy and the love of free thinking
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 00:13:12


l4v.r0v
Level 42
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Please give some examples.
  • To Kill a Mockingbird
  • The Perks of Being a Wallflower
  • The Hate U Give
  • Scythe
And the rest of these all seem appropriate for 9th grade English: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/50-ya-novels-adults-will-love/
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 02:05:41


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Has any country banned the Quran yet?
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 05:30:25

Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prinz von Preußen
Level 56
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I don't think so, but versions the Bible have been banned in places. Spain of all places is where I found.
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 10:21:21


waffle
Level 57
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Whoever was saying young adult books are good: Please give some examples. To me, they all seem to be crap.


My point wasn't about the quality of the books, but about the target audience. Young adult books were written for young adults, and thus will contain elements which will likely interest them more. Of course, a book can be teenager-friendly without necessarily being originally written for them. The point is, many school books are written in a language that is not easy to read and it's easy to get discouraged after a while and simply read the summary found on the internet. I've done that for most school books, and, imo, it's not really that much worse than actually reading the book... you get the main points without all the fancy-shmancy, you could argue it's actually more efficient that way, provided you find a good summary. Obviously, that's not the point; you want the kids to actually read what's given to them. I agree with knyte that people care way too much about classics. They're not always essential/appropriate for school level, and I'm sure some could be moved to college/university and it wouldn't be a great loss. Personally, I think it's more important to find something that is actually interesting to the reader. It was always hard to maintain interest for me in, say, a centuries old, long ass poem, written in archaic language, of which the text makes you believe that the guy who wrote this was high.
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 17:01:05


RainB00ts
Level 43
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Hurr 16 year olds should be reading harry potter because duh shakespeer is 2 hard 2 read hurr
No one's saying that; you're just putting words in waffle's mouth because you are weirdly committed to your belief but lack the ability to defend it against an actually decent argument.

It honestly sounds to me like your problem is that your own school sucks and teaches below your level, or perhaps you're in the lower-level classes where they give you lame books to try and motivate you to read. I've never even heard of the hate u give, but looking at the book, it seems like it has literary merit although it's clearly written for teenagers and tries to be relatable to them. It doesn't seem like the kind of book you'd read because Shakespeare is too hard; it's the kind you'd read for the same reason people would watch The VVitch instead of Metropolis and Casablanca in modern introductory film classes, to keep them interested and to give them a gentler step up into the concepts.

Honestly I think the people making high school reading lists have way too much of a fetish for "the Classics"; it's not like Dickens was considered sophisticated material in his time. He was innovative, sure, but just reading Dickens and Shakespeare and the like over and over again dulls your reading skills and denies you the chance to build literary analysis abilities. I'd love to swap out Julius Caesar and Great Expectations in a curriculum for, say, Trainspotting and Middlesex.

Maybe you're just not like other kids or something and want to tell us that you're very smart because you can read Shakespeare. In that case, congratulations, you can read.


Of course my public school taught a dumbed down reading curriculum, I'm an American lol. Reading the classics doesn't "dull your reading skills and deny you the chance to build literary analysis abilities" I think that's an asinine statement. I'm not against all modern literature and YA, I just think most modern YA is mostly state/corporate/military propaganda. That's a good two paragraphs of material I'd like to interact with but it's just outlandish assumptions and ad hominems. All I can really say in response is that it's ironic you think I'm some pseud because of my tastes when your whole argument is just classics bad moderns good, or your own personal tastes. You're just taking the opposite side on this pointless dialectical. Once again I'm not against all modern literature, I'm against propaganda and the stupid YA industry.
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 17:20:02


RainB00ts
Level 43
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Why has nobody mentioned the Chronicles of Narnia
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 18:54:59


Arthas Menethil
Level 28
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https://www.yaindustry.com/
?
Could you explain? This i got from searching YA industry.
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 20:07:09


l6v.r2v
Level 38
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@Arthas: YA = "young adult" literature, a term used in the Anglosphere for literature targeted at teenagers (13-17 year olds, really).

Of course my public school taught a dumbed down reading curriculum, I'm an American lol.
There's an insane amount of variance in the quality of American schooling. How good was your school? I mean, where did its typical graduate wind up afterwards? I think that's a good proxy. The other good proxy is teacher salaries relative to cost of living in the area, although those are noisy, and performance on standardized tests (e.g., # of National Merit Semifinalists). Or you can skip the middleman and just look at local property values.

And does your state/district have multiple tracks (like a "Pre-AP/AP" track, a "normal/academic" track, etc.)? I think the normal track in most schools is really to accommodate people who are behind and are not expected to amount to much (at least, academically), so I can see why they would use YA just to get them to read.

I too am a product of the American public education system, and your dumbed down curriculum is alien to me.

I just think most modern YA is mostly state/corporate/military propaganda.

I don't know about propaganda, but most YA is indeed garbage that tries to appeal to people who haven't developed proper reading skills yet.

I just see it as a valid 9th-grade stepping stone. If your reading list is YA in, like, junior year, you're either in the short bus track or your school needs to bump its salaries/benefits so it can hire people who actually should be teaching teens. The books I think you should be reading by sophomore, junior, and senior year definitely wouldn't fall into the YA category (although many of them aren't classics either). Just need to be reading something that has something to say and develops your reading muscles- so not YA over and over, definitely not Dickens or Shakespeare (as fun as it is) or stuff like Chaucer and Homer and Sophocles over and over, but, say, Frankenstein, Crime & Punishment, etc. Books that- at least for the average teen- help you improve as a reader and expose you to novel ideas (and don't have simplistic takeaways like "don't be racist LOL," although a good book also doesn't really need a takeaway at all).

Literature is a form of art, after all. An obsession with Dickens is, imo, like the obsession amateurs have with Renaissance-style paintings and classical art. But art has the capacity to convey meaning, and being able to pick up on that and analyze subtext/etc. is what I think is important in a high school literature curriculum. Not being able to say you've read the "important" books for your culture (if you can read, you can read 'em yourself- you're already more than capable of dissecting them by the time you leave middle school; they didn't get popular and important by only being decipherable by the elite) but instead coming out of the system as something other than the kind of zombie who takes everything literally and barely understands what a theme is. Dickens and Shakespeare, like YA, are really stepping stones too: you don't need to read them to develop in high school.

That's a good two paragraphs of material I'd like to interact with but it's just outlandish assumptions and ad hominems.

They're insults, not ad hominems. Ad hominem is when I say something like "you're an idiot, so your argument is wrong." Here I am just saying "you're an idiot" for the sake of calling you an idiot. Maybe going to a better public school would've taught you the difference. That's another insult, by the way, not an ad hominem.

Edited 2/7/2021 04:04:17
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 20:17:18


berdan131
Level 59
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@l6v.r2v

Why are you so toxic? What's wrong with you?

If you're so smart, then why do you argue in the internet? I got an impression you're not so bright as you would like us to believe after all, smartass.

Edited 2/6/2021 20:21:37
Banned books: Why?: 2/6/2021 20:18:43


l6v.r2v
Level 38
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berdan, save that for your retirement thread.
Banned books: Why?: 2/7/2021 06:08:34

Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prinz von Preußen
Level 56
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I hate language arts. I deeply hate it. I also hate Shakespearean books. I simply hate them. However, I do not think any books should ever be banned from a public library and they should also only be banned from school if they are overly sexual. Literature must be protected and people need to get over being offended because they enjoy being offended. They need to shut up and accept that people have opinions different from theirs and that books were written when society was different.
Banned books: Why?: 2/7/2021 06:10:11

Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prinz von Preußen
Level 56
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I also think the US public school system is trash. Anyone who says otherwise grew up in a poor country. China and Russia have better school systems than the US. That's a problem.
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