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The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 13:53:46


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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I am interested in how to make a triple pick work, but I want to keep "Ask Piggy" on topic, so I have made a seperate thread for it.

For me this is triple picking at its best (from orange) http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3401687 and it allows him to get a high income fast without taking any unreasonable risks. Unfortunately he doesnt use his high income to end the game while he can, and his longterm weaknesses show, so he loses.
The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 13:56:23


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 13:59:30


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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I used this exclusively whenever it was possible. After the weakness was pointed out to me (that it's easy to break/be counter picked etc) I've come to the realization that it's probably a bad strategy against good players. Anything you gain by getting the first bonus slightly faster is lost by having all of your boni concentrated in one area and if you simply fail to get one of your picks, you are often screwed.

It's still fun against bad players though, who you can beat anyway even if they somehow figure out where you are or something.
The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 14:13:02

[WM] Artham 
Level 37
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I don't think it's a good strategy at all (mayby in some very rare cases). In the given example, if Dunga wouldn't get his 1st pick, he'd be screwed anyway and even more then he was in the given example. Only way I would even consider this is if I could get a bigger then 3 bonus 1st turn. 2nd turn even a 6 bonus as given here doesn't make a decisive advantage and the more into the game, the more behind you fall.
The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 14:32:41

The Duke of Ben 
Level 55
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A good triple pick requires a board situation that is extremely rare. Even when available, it's not without risks and is not much better than a more standard approach to picking for most situations.

In order to successfully triple pick, you need an area with three picks (that don't suck) that all reach one completable bonus (obviously), which is already somewhat rare. Then you also need to be somewhat sure that your opponent won't want any of your three picks (or at least not enough to pick your #1 as their #1), and won't want to pick close enough to you to counter you, so you need an area that is blocked off by geography or wastelands, and you're picking at least one or two inefficient bonuses. After that, you either need to be able to expand quickly from there (which is at odds with your previous goal of being protected by geography or wastelands), or you need to be near (but not TOO near) your opponent to use your early income advantage. Expansion options end up looking for awkward bonuses such as North and South Africa, Caucasus, East Russia, and other places that nobody else would normally want. Since you picked several inefficient bonuses and your expansion is likely to go through more inefficient bonuses, most triple picks only work if you come into contact with your enemy, instead of wasting all that extra time picking up bad bonuses. By the time Dunga would have completed Caucasus, his opponent would have been able to make up for the speed at which he completed his first one. If his enemy wasn't close by, then his triple pick would have faltered on its own anyway.

So why would you want to triple pick? I can think of two situations where it is still worthwhile. One is to confuse and misdirect the enemy. If they spend extra turns and armies chasing you in more conventional areas, then you can surprise them from an area they may not expect. Completing East China on turn one gives you enough income to counter the fact that you are in West China, and you can surprise anyone looking for your other two picks elsewhere. Secondly is when the stars align and you can get a first or second turn bonus that gives you a big income advantage, and you're almost certainly going to be next to your opponent immediately after completing it. The best one seems to be a first turn West Africa against a very likely South America pick.

The thing about a triple pick that gets me to avoid them is that it's so much easier to mess them up in play (maybe from lack of practice?). Also, I think a lot of times when people try them, it's not actually a good option on that board, because of how rare a good triple pick situation really is.

If you want to see someone who was very good at triple picking, find some zaeban games. That guy loved early advantages, and managed to win a number of games against good opponents through triple picking.
The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 16:08:35


À la recherche du temps perdu 
Level 35
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3552159
Ok don't mind on how bad I played here because I wasn't focusing at all, anyway go on turn 6, if I would have played little better I think I would have won it.
Considering also that he played distant picks from mine, infact if he would have taken russia, he would have been in troubles, and unfortunately in the long run the triple pick is gonna fail, but it allows a nice advantage for sure.
The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 16:32:07


szeweningen 
Level 60
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piggy, try to review dunga's game again... he was never ahead because of a huge threat potentially coming from japan. I'll make it easy for you, triple pick works only in africa, preferably when there is an opponent in SA, sometimes triple picking australia with ant and indo for safety. Does not work in russia (unless you get lucky). Triple pick does not work for 3 main reasons:
1) you don't always get your 3 picks
2) you may reveal a lot of intel and the opponent will see where you are
3) once they know where your starts where most of the time they can sacrifice one of their bonuses to get an attack on your bonuses going, and when you lose one of your bonuses, you lose all of them (risk concentration)

To sum up, use triple pick a very small percentage of a time, only when the position calls for it.
The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 16:46:04


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3544516

I won this game with a triple pick.
The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 16:52:10


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Very impressive, we can all learn a lot from your technique!
The old triple-pick: 12/11/2012 22:29:22

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 60
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it's a bad strategy that can always work.

The best deal is to get a +4 bonus on turn 1. So u are ahead of your opponent for 1 turn or 2.

If u get a +5/6 on turn 2 while he gets +4 the difference is minimal.

the exception is to take a +5 bonus IF you can get a +3/4 the next turn ( so i 'd never pick a +5 bonus made of 7 territory).

this stated, i'm not a fan of triple pickin. Too many problems ( attack failed, enemy nearby, u dont get your third pick...).
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 00:30:14


{RSP} Nike
Level 4
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3523958

/RSP\Civ decided to triple pick to get East Asia on the first turn. I didn't expect him to do that, and he went on to win the game against me.
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 00:30:53


{RSP} Nike
Level 4
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Sorry, i mean East china, not east asia.
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 01:04:46


AquaHolic 
Level 55
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why didn't you go for Antarctica?
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 05:53:58

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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General Arun:
"http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3544516

I won this game with a triple pick."


Opponent's Win Rate: 1v1: 17 / 180 (9%)


It rather looks like closing ones eyes and randomly hitting the keyboard would have a decent chance of success as well.
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 06:12:59


J Russell Mikkelsen 
Level 4
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I didn't even consider the possibility of triple-picking in this game. But it was clearly effective.

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3248814
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 06:33:25

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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I was taught not to do it so never did. After seeing this thread I decided to give it a try. Did win, but I'm not sure I'd say it's "why" I won. I'm no master at strategic 1v1 by any means (I'd say I win ~50% of my games, my listed percentage is much lower, but I mean I think currently I win 50%ish of my recent games), but I think in this case the opponent was just a worse player than I am and would have lost no matter what picks I made:

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3558388
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 06:41:20

Qi 
Level 55
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TournamentID=3601

Triple Pick Open 1v1.

Special Rule: All 6 of your picks must be adjacent to at least one of your other picks' borders. In other words, make a triple pick with 1-3, and use the backups (4-6) to pick bonus areas next to your first picks.
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 06:48:33

Qi 
Level 55
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阿弥陀佛

"Monks, there are these three things which shine forth for all to see, which are not hidden. Which three?"
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 07:16:57


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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@ The Duke Of Ben: I completely agree, it seems like it's not worth the fuss to T-P, but I like pushing the boat out with my picks and I want very much to make triple picking work. Thanks for the tip, I am checking Zaeban now.

@ Szeweningen: At the start of turn 4 Orange had a chance to follow his very aggressive picks to their logical conclusion and win 'by force'. He obviously could not expect to win in a long slow game, but an income of 14 at the start of turn 4 is very high and he got it without taking any risks. If he had decided to deploy all in thailand and attack last move into malaysia on turn 4 he would have quite rightly won.

Have you seen any triple picks you like?
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 07:31:46


NoobSchool (AHoL) • apex 
Level 58
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You fellas might like this one.

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3558482

Read this thread so I decided to try it out. I usually don't do this.
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 07:58:26

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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Certainly didn't work this time:

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3558519
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 09:26:34


x 
Level 58
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yeah, in noob's game the wastelands are set up so the only problem he would have is from indonesia. and even though your opponent gets thailand, your having west china is so improbable that he doesn't bother checking. your opponent doesn't play great in thailand, but it's still decent.

also, the only real chance of not getting your top 3 is if he chooses india as his 1, which isn't too likely.
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 14:07:22


NoobSchool (AHoL) • apex 
Level 58
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Exactly, that's why I chose it first. Glad I read this thread first, the wastelands and everything laid out great.
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 21:57:47


Carlos Danger 
Level 60
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3561694

Another failure of using the triple pick properly. If I hadn't taken central america and went in full steam the game would have been over.
The old triple-pick: 12/12/2012 22:56:50


Knoebber 
Level 54
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The old triple-pick: 12/13/2012 10:17:04


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3563638

It's fun against bad players but, as you can see, if he was any good I would have lost.
The old triple-pick: 12/13/2012 12:04:23


Mian 
Level 54
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Triple picking is usually cheesy. Period. But you can hope your opponent considers your plan is to counter and let you pick part of the triplet and not get the whole package because it would be considered weak to set them as picks 1 2 3.

So it's high risk, high reward and should be considered if you really have clues on your opponent's way of picking. Sometimes bad players will surprise strong ones this way, and could figure it as a desperate option because they know they still don't match the opponent.

Szeweningen, I don't concur : it applies to Africa, because it's a unity you have to break and it shouldn't be allowed to an opponent in a wasteland-free Africa. It's a fast and safe chestnut if you have free hands in it. So, sure, a favorable distribution makes Africa a dreamland in case you triple-pick and build up an unbreakable core there, but still, do you really hope any rugged player will let you complete it ?.. :o)
The old triple-pick: 12/13/2012 16:12:29


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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My Triple Pick that beat the BEST PLAYER ON WARLIGHT!!!!

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=3527803
The old triple-pick: 12/13/2012 16:24:18


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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This game was fun, but then again, if the person I was playing was any good, it probably would not have worked....

Wait, but he's the best player on Warlight, so that must mean that he's good, right?

I'm so confused. :(
The old triple-pick: 12/13/2012 16:40:06

The Duke of Ben 
Level 55
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He did some really dumb stuff, like making the same exact moves over and over again while you were completing Southeast Asia without confrontation. He could have broken Europe had he committed to attacking one spot or the other. Instead he backed away from your only bonus in order to...I'm not sure what. Attack it from an angle that you could actually defend it from?

I have to assume that he didn't think you actually triple picked, and was worried about falling behind on income elsewhere. In reality, breaking Europe from Georgia or Turkey would have been game over, even if you had managed to keep him from completing South America. All he had to do was maintain some presense there while breaking your only bonus.

I quite thoroughly enjoyed watching that game either way.
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