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Blockades: 7/19/2014 12:12:28


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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I use the blockade card really badly. I use it on the wrong turns, in the wrong places and with the wrong number of armies. Because its so rare and its the only thing that can subvert a massive enemy stack in one of your bonuses then I tend to save it for hail mary's. The idea of using it on a territory that my opponent could potentially attack used to make me wince if i considered it at all. Making a blockade that was too small was incredibly noobish. That was fine a year or so ago but top level play has become more dynamic. I dont see a massive stack in one of my bonuses unless I've already passed the point where a blockade might be useful. Its value has gone down dramatically. The main cost of using the blockade is not the card itself. You have to give up a territory and armies. The types of territories that typically get blockaded (Hawaii, iran, scott) are too valuable in the long run to be given up. Sacrificing the territory gives the other guy the initiative.

I have started trying to use it in a different way.
1. Use it as soon as I can
2. make it small, 1-3 armies is ideal
3. dont use it somewhere that i cant afford let the enemy take
4. gamble that the territory i play it on will get taken this turn
5. Stop the other guy from going through it by keeping the pressure on somewhere else. it takes an attack of 19 to break a blockade card played on 3 armies in one turn. And the attacker will lose 7 of them.

in short; use it more like how people use abandons
Blockades: 7/19/2014 12:45:46


Green 
Level 56
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This reminds me of Davidhmtk's play against Dreamworker in this game:
http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=6638246

Blockading West Russia with two armies in turn 3 in order to get elimination around Central America
Blockades: 7/19/2014 13:18:22


Odin 
Level 59
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People often use the blockade card against me by blockading some bottleneck territory in Antarctica with 5-ish troops. The blockade card multiplies those troops by 3.51, resulting in about 15-25 neutrals. Often, this is also the only spot where we have contact.

I mostly react by amassing troops for 1-2 turns and then breaking the blockade, after which I have a huge, unstoppable stack coming after the rest of his bonuses. I will also take Antarctica in the process, because it is safe and full of bottlenecks, meaning little room for opponent to maneuver and spoil. Then the game is mostly over.

The blockade hasn't achieved anything. Aside from me not being stopped, I didn't even lose many more armies breaking the blockade than its creator when creating it. On average, I lose 3.51 * 0.7 = 2.457 troops for every 1 troop he blockaded with. So, if he made a blockade with 5 troops, I lose about 12-13 troops breaking it, which is 7-8 more than him. If I get an extra bonus and break his, then I get those 7-8 troops compensated in 1 turn.

When I use a blockade in ME, it's usually a small one in some periphery bonus in Asia. Like, when I start in Scandinavia and I know that my enemy is in eastern Asia. I gather a stack of troops to break his eastern Asian bonuses and don't want to waste them in defending Scandinavia. I might blockade Svalbard with 3-7, depending on what kind of stack the enemy is attacking Scandinavia with.

It doesn't make it impossible for him to break the blockade and get the bonus, but

a) he will need 20-40 troops to break the blockade while he needs those troops elsewhere too

b) those troops are completely useless after the blockade is broken. It will take many turns to move them back to central Asia. Even more useless if Greenland has a wasteland in it, then it is less likely he will try to capture it with the remnants.
Blockades: 7/19/2014 13:18:31


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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The use of the blockade card is totally dependend of the game. You can not generalize its use.
Sometimes a blockade of even 1 army is a good enough blockade to suit your goals, sometimes a blockade of 15 armies is not enough.
Blockades: 7/19/2014 14:23:44


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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One trick that sometimes works, is a late transfer out of 75% of the armies, followed by blockade.

For example, you have West Africa, [S]he has Central America. You meet in South America at the same turn.

On the next turn, put a large stack in Brazil, anticipating him putting a large stack in either Columbia/Venezula, whichever [s]he's in. On this turn, maybe with Order Delay on, you attack Argentina with 75% and blockade Brazil.

Risks: If he attacks you and you are overrun (Shouldn't really happen) or if you execute the 75% first, your blockade is wasted, and your Africa bonuses are overrun.

If he attacks you, your 75% may not be enough to conquor Argentina.

Rewards: If he doesn't attack you, you've successfully moved the majority of your stack closer to him, and put up a sizable blockade protecting your bonuses.
Blockades: 7/19/2014 14:32:41


brisk • apex 
Level 58
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not necessarily 75%, but around that number. it always depends on the situation and what you think your opponent will do.
Blockades: 7/19/2014 14:59:36

Pulsey
Level 56
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I agree with myhand, each situation is unique.
Blockades: 7/19/2014 16:53:52


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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I think the general premise Piggy is talking about is that large blockades are typically not that effective. If you have enough income to invest big in a blockade, it means that you could probably win with that income without using the blockade. It's a question of efficiency. Is it efficient to invest big on a blockade when your income could be used elsewhere? Is it efficient to leave a small blockade that won't stop your opponent from taking back the bonus but would leave him with 3-4 less troops to defend one of his bonuses? Like Piggy describes, the best time to efficiently use a blockade would be in early game where your opponent does not have all of his income. However, these cases don't come up often.

I'm curious, search through your games and see if you have one where you won by blockading a territory with only 1-3 troops on it (4, 7, or 10 blockade).
Blockades: 7/19/2014 16:57:17


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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just a point:
win a game with a small blockade, doesn't mean for sure you won bc the blockade.
So depends imo. You could have won without blcoakde too, or with one bigger :)
Blockades: 7/19/2014 17:09:59


Vulpes
Level 56
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Edited 8/18/2014 07:26:02
Blockades: 7/19/2014 19:42:14


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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just a point:
win a game with a small blockade, doesn't mean for sure you won bc the blockade.
So depends imo. You could have won without blcoakde too, or with one bigger :)


Hmm thanks for pointing that out Gnuffles only:

I'm curious, search through your games and see if you have one where you won by blockading a territory with only 1-3 troops on it (4, 7, or 10 blockade).


In this post, I specifically ask for games that are won as a result of a small blockade. :)
Blockades: 7/19/2014 20:12:13


RA 
Level 58
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games that are won as a result of a small blockade

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5182013

Turn 5.

Yes/No?
Blockades: 7/19/2014 20:31:09


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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No
Blockades: 7/19/2014 21:28:42


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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@Ra: While it is an interesting use of a blockade, I don't see it winning you that game. Your strategy was to block Queensland small and then use first orders to bust Antarctica. What's funny is that your plan doesn't quite work. Later on in the game you eliminate Rabbit from Australia, but because of the blockade and even income you don't really have a chance of going for Aus. I will admit this is a better use of a blockade than I've seen in most games, but it does not win you this game.

I'm asking out of curiosity, and it won't surprise me if no one can find a flawless example. Do post games where you think the blockade did turn the tide or give you an advantage even if it did not win you the game. :)
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:08:55


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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"The use of the blockade card is totally dependend of the game. You can not generalize its use."

*shrug* I think I can.

"games that are won as a result of a small blockade"

I cant see games in terms of one thing winning or losing them. Its why I struggle with the "you won on luck" moaning from Qi and Boston. A blockade wont win a game. Accepting that is the first step to playing the card well.
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:12:27


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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Sure you can, just doesnt give it any educational value.

And a blockade card can win you the game. I would love to post some examples, but since this thread is placed in the ladder forum, my alts can not post.

Edited 7/20/2014 01:14:22
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:28:35


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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Do you think there is anything of any educational value to be said on the topic of using blockades? Or is any heuristic reductionist?
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:39:32


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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And a blockade card can win you the game. I would love to post some examples, but since this thread is placed in the ladder forum, my alts can not post.


Why not just grab the link from the alt, and then post it through your main? Unfortunately I don't think you can keep your anonymity on them if you post unless we edit these posts and you just send me a couple links through mail. I'll act like they could be anyone's alt who read this post. :P

Edited 7/20/2014 01:40:12
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:39:35


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:41:27


Vulpes
Level 56
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Edited 8/18/2014 07:26:53
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:44:34


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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The way you presented the topic, it seemed as if you were implying educational value.
And yes I do believe there is educational value in the use of blockades, most certainly. Or do you believe that if you never used a blockade before you would make a better decision than after having used it in various ways on multiple occasions?

And even if I am a holistic person, I do believe that of course it is possible to achieve better or more accurate results with a heuristic reduction, if you have the necessary data and processing power requiered for the task you are applying it on.
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:49:11


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
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@DP, in our first game, are you talking about the turn 6 blockade?

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5645080 good blockade
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:50:26


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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@voodoo

You made a whole thread about luck determining the outcome of top strat 1v1 games in which you argued vehemently with lots of different people who all thought you were wrong. So you were the second off the top of my head. An example of the attitude that something besides a huge number of choices by the player are the primary determinant of the outcome of the game.

Edited 7/20/2014 01:50:56
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:50:46


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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Piggy, I disagree in your interpretations of a good or bad blockade. They seem rather arbitrary to me.

@lolowut Yes, I believe that train has left station now.

Edited 7/20/2014 01:54:29
Blockades: 7/20/2014 01:55:35


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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The less data and processing power you have the more general your assertions have to be. So mine are pretty fucking broad. They will be refined over time, as exceptions to the rule get turned into new rules. I dont think theyre currently too general to be useful. If you do theh perhaps start bringing up the exceptions and I can start addressing them.
Blockades: 7/20/2014 02:01:14


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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@ Pooh

yes I am. It is risky because hes using armies for the blockade that might get killed by a first move from gnuffone, that needs to be recognised as a good thing, especially because JV is losing. It is of appropriate size to hurt gnuffone but not so big that JV cant expand nicely in caucasus. JV hasnt waited until hes blockading in scott and thereby eliminating himself from the south and doing what gnuff would expect. It is not used to achieve a strategic aim, its purely tactical. These things all are good.
Blockades: 7/20/2014 02:11:40


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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Okay

I will start with what you did:

I have started trying to use it in a different way.

1. Use it as soon as I can
2. make it small, 1-3 armies is ideal
3. dont use it somewhere that i cant afford let the enemy take
4. gamble that the territory i play it on will get taken this turn
5. Stop the other guy from going through it by keeping the pressure on somewhere else. it takes an attack of 19 to break a blockade card played on 3 armies in one turn. And the attacker will lose 7 of them.



1. Ignore this point. Its ridiculous. Use it when the other prerequisites are met. When you forsee a better opportunity of the usage of a blockade card somewhen in the future, it might be better to delay its use.
2. Ignore this point. Its not even ridiculous anymore, its plain stupid. Make it as small as neccessary, but dont use an "ideal" number, since an ideal number is arbitrary.
3. Ignore this point. Even if you can afford letting the enemy take the territory, respectively bonus be taken, it might be a good decision to still blockade if a good opportunity presents itself.
4. What is that supposed to mean? Clarify please. The way i read it, its the opposite of what you might have meant. Gamble that the territory you play it on will not get taken this turn makes more sense. If that is the case, its an incorrect advice. Sometimes you might have to gamble would be better. If not, ignore this point. Its stupid.
5. Ignore the latter part of this point. It just gives an example on the effects of taking down a blockade on an army stack. Be sure to exactly know how a blockade card works, before you read this valuable guide of advanced knowledge on when to use a blockade card.
Considering the former part of the advice, its not precise. There are circumstances in which a taken down blockade can be intentional by you. Ergo, ignore this point.

The educational value of all this is almost none, quite the contrary, if you follow this guide as it is, it will be harmful for your game.

Edited 7/20/2014 02:16:17
Blockades: 7/20/2014 02:19:12


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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"Yes, I believe that train has left station now." Dont worry about it, noone reads these threads anyway =D
Blockades: 7/20/2014 02:21:33


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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I think you underestimate your influence on the community there.
Blockades: 7/20/2014 02:46:15

JV
Level 61
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I still remember the advice Odin gave me in a game when we were discussing the Blockade card. it went something like this "If you have to use a blockade to stop your opponent....you probably already lost."
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