<< Back to Ladder Forum   Search

Posts 1 - 26 of 26   
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/15/2014 20:12:26


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
I know %0 straight round will never happen, as Fizzer likes 3v2s to fail...I get that. But why do we have to have %16 weighted random? I am SO sick of obscure attacks deciding games. I had that happen in 3 out of my 5 ladder matches at one time. Complete garbage. Why can't we let skill decide? Isn't the ladder supposed to be a measure of skill?
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/15/2014 20:29:17


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
Report
hehe nice try.
We try many times to change it.
Fizzer never reply, or just say he will never change the 1v1 and 2v2 ladders probably.

Ofc, i would agree with the changes.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/15/2014 20:31:23


Master Potato
Level 59
Report
I dont think SR on 1v1 ladder is good. 0% wr would be perfect
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/15/2014 20:49:50


brisk • apex 
Level 58
Report
Why can't we let skill decide? Isn't the ladder supposed to be a measure of skill?

if you want the skill to decide, then you are definitely talking about changing it to 0% SR, which I have to disagree because it's not the same when you know EXACTLY whats going to happen when you attack.

now, I agree its annoying when you lose because of luck, but i'm sure it also happens to you that you win by luck.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/15/2014 20:50:21


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
Well, I don't think we should stop asking even if he never responds.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/15/2014 20:51:13


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
Brisk - personally I like %0 SR, but I think %0 WR is best on ladder. It gives chance of 3v2 failing, which I can see the importance of.

And yes, in theory luck evens out over a long period of time, that doesn't mean I like it. Plus that assumes that I take the same number of risks my opponents do on attacks, which isn't the case. Otherwise there is no chance for it to even out.

Edited 7/15/2014 20:53:26
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/15/2014 21:03:18


Beren • apex 
Level 63
Report
But optimizing the level of risk appropriate for the current state of the game is a skill...
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/15/2014 21:23:36


Vulpes
Level 56
Report


Edited 8/9/2014 05:03:17
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/16/2014 06:36:30


Vulpes
Level 56
Report


Edited 7/22/2014 14:55:31
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/16/2014 07:01:52


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
Report
Qi edited away his old comments so now my old comment is meaningless. Peace.

Edited 7/23/2014 11:44:40
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/16/2014 07:36:36


Vulpes
Level 56
Report


Edited 7/22/2014 14:55:58
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/22/2014 14:52:59


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
Changed my mind, I don't even want %0 WR. Just missed 3 out of 4 3v2 attacks in a game. I don't know if I will ever join 1v1 ladder again. So sick of luck deciding games. I lose enough on my own, I don't need to get screwed when I make the right play too. And there is NO WAY luck is evening out either. That is a crock of shit. You can flip a coin 1,000 times and have it come up %75 one way. Just because the odds are 50-50 doesn't mean it will always even out.

I will be interested to see how some of these templates play. And if they do well, I will make CLOT with it. I'd rather play there then on the 1v1 ladder.

EDIT - I also might be a little pissed because I just missed a 5v3 to break a bonus too (WTF is with a 5v3 attack and we both lose 2 armies?). Luckily that game is already won, but come on.

Edited 7/22/2014 14:56:48
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/22/2014 15:21:59


brisk • apex 
Level 58
Report
i once tried in C# to "flip a coin" 1000 times (for those who understand, i mean with "random") so there is 50% to result "1" and 50% to result "2". then i told him to write how many times the result was 1. it never occurred that the result was 1 more than 550 times, and never less than 450 times. of course, you could say that theoretically it could also occur that the result is 1000 times 1 and 0 times 2. that is unlikely though, because the chances are too low (and same about 750-250 or 250-750). and again, i'm sure that all in all, you have as good as bad (or at least close to). you must have won a few times because your opponent failed 5v3, or 3 out of 4 3v2. haven't you?

Edited 7/22/2014 15:48:15
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/22/2014 15:40:02


Ace Windu 
Level 56
Report
Chris, the luck will even out over time and managing risk is a key part of the game for me.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/22/2014 16:22:39


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
Perhaps 1,000 is a bad example. The larger the sample size, the closer to 50-50 it would be.

But in a 15 game ladder sample (since that is amount to get ranked), there is a very good chance you could be on the wrong side of luck %75 of time.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/22/2014 16:38:13


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
I just looked at my last 15 games and it basically evened out (cumulative luck), but many of those swings don't factor into the game and sometimes the unlucky times are at the absolute worst time possible. It does ebb and flow though. For example I am minus 13 over my last 6 of those games.

The interesting thing is that in all my losses but 1, I am negative luck. In all my wins I am positive luck. Yet in most of my games, it did not feel like they were decided by luck at all. Perhaps you make your own luck most of the time. Yet for some reason it really chaps me when you have a bad streak of luck.

I would love to see a top player do an analysis on their games and determine how luck played a factor (moves where it mattered).

Edited 7/22/2014 16:39:21
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/23/2014 10:42:57

The Duke of Ben 
Level 55
Report
Season IV (I think it was that season) pretty much took all the luck out of the game. It was my favorite template from the various seasons, even though I didn't play the season. I found out how much I liked those settings in a couple of tournaments that used them.

Long term the meta-game would get way too tight with 0% SR, but a tournament or limited season (RT Ladder too) is quite nice as a break from the regular ladder.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/23/2014 11:31:04


[WM] แต€แดดแดฑ๐“•๐“ป๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ฐ๐“ฎ 
Level 59
Report
You cannot change luck on the ladder. Only Fizzer can.
You can however change luck in games you create.
Just tick "customize template" before picking it and go to "armies" tab.
Luck settings are at the very top.

no need to thank me.
I'm always there to help you guys.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/24/2014 17:14:17


ChristophU
Level 56
Report
I do agree with you that the luck should be change to make 3v2 reliable enough to depend on when 1 of them are required. One thing I like to do is take a bonus with 4 other territories, attack 2 of them using 4 armies usually yielding one stack of 3 and another stack of 2 so I can then use them to do 2 more 4v2s to take the bonus. In this game: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=6678474 (I am still a little frustrated by this so forgive me)that same strat yielded me 2 stacks of 2, and as I wanted to continue trying to get SA I did a 4v2 attack and a 3v2 attack and then it was game over with a net luck of -1.7 in 3 turns

While this was on the real time ladder, the same concept still applies, luck should not completely determine the winner.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/24/2014 18:15:25


Master Potato
Level 59
Report
ChristophU, maybe if your 3rd pick was in a bonus you could actaully finish you wouldn't rely on luck :D, and why did you even go for SA infront of your enemy + in worst way possible??? you cant really blame that game on luck

Edited 7/24/2014 18:49:48
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/24/2014 18:47:53


Beren • apex 
Level 63
Report
I feel the same way about people complaining about luck as I do about people who complain that they lost a match because the referee made a bad call. There are of course plenty of cases where a match is close enough that a failed attack or a referee's call can alter the winner. However, just about every time there are things that you could have done to avoid putting yourself in a position to be reliant on that single attack or whistle.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/24/2014 18:59:21


ChristophU
Level 56
Report
The reason I pick like that is so I can get 17 troops per turn with in the first 5-6 turns which I can then use for whatever. There are flaws like if I get encountered quickly, I am basically dead, and in a real time game, you have 5 minutes which is just enough time to re think the best decision because it can possibly be countered. In theory, I should have stop him from completing his bonus instead of going for mine, but he could have countered that if he knew what I could have done, so I switched back to my original plan and it failed.

That bad game was just an example of how unreliable 3v2s can be, and had I been successful with that attack and lost the game like that, maybe I would be adjusting my strat for these. Plus I am bad at changing my game plan mid game, for example: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=6647268 when I was playing against JSA in this, I was originally going to brake Indonesia on turn 8, but I knew he did not have it completely so I just held and fell out of position to the better player. Had I not changed my plan, it would be a different game.


Back to my original point, 3v2s are way to unreliable. If I am running a bad strat, I want to get crushed with everything fairly according to plan for the both of us. That is what will make players with bad tactics figure out how they an improve their gameplay and starting plan.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/24/2014 19:43:22


Master Potato
Level 59
Report
Christophu, your game against Beren was a poor example of why weighted random luck is a bad idea in ladders. You lost that game due to poor picks and play, with the 3v2 miss being what finished off the game.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/24/2014 21:46:29


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
Beren, i agree with you somewhat, but this is not sports. And even in sports i have never understood what is so great about human element. Home whistle in NBA, makeup call in NHL. It all makes the product worse.

I have seen nobody ever defend %16 luck on here. What good is a 4v3 win, a 2v2 and a 1v1? What about those make the game 'strategic'? I get the weighted random, which makes 3v2s fail. It actually adds some additional strategic value. I still have yet to see a case for the luck setting. Nobody says it is better, they just say live with it, or it evens out, etc. to me that is as bad as the makeup penalty in hockey. Dont make bad calls and justify it by saying boths sides had bad calls. I want the best call possible at all times.
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/25/2014 05:47:10


Vulpes
Level 56
Report


Edited 8/9/2014 05:03:37
PLEASE - can we change luck on 1v1 ladder?: 7/25/2014 09:28:57


Master Potato
Level 59
Report
haha
Posts 1 - 26 of 26