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Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 04:32:13

Qi 
Level 55
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Marquis de Vauban,

Be a man. Play people from 20.

Sure, it would be like losing to Wazz (1-2) and Sze (1-5). But at least it would look better than how you avoid players in 20 rated below you so you can game the system and keep your rating artificially high.

vs Belzebu, Ottoman Emperor, Timinator, Darkw1ng, Teddy: only 1 game total!

Why do you fear losing so much? Aren't you the best player on WL? Why don't you prove it? You make it hard for me to defend you as the best player on WL.

Your biggest fan.

Edited 7/8/2014 04:41:05
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 05:11:09


LustyTrucker 10:4
Level 47
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decided against the post script, huh. It did take away from the fan-mail
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 06:17:30


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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haha what was the post script?

The RT ladder is un-game-able and all knowing. If it says gnuggles is 1 then he is 1. The ladder has made no comment on whether or not he is a pussy though, that is open to interpretation. Please mighty ladder - knower of relative skill and evaluator of strategic competence - pass judgement on gnuggles! Send us a sign! Do you find him to be a big puss? We will reconvene in a week to decipher the judgement that the ladder passes.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 06:35:38

RT Ladder
Level 19
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I need a new phone. Cheap ones need not apply.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 07:15:42


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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Gui, you should decide what is right in the realtime ladder:
-vs sze you accused him to play only high rated player;
-vs me now, you accuse me to avoid strong player (instead i just joinone time each 3 days, i don't care of who he joined at that time the ladder).
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 07:27:10


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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You are both good against players of different skill levels. The problem is you choosing opponents. I imagine youre less guilty of that than sze is, but either way there is a problem with the ladder.

Edited 7/8/2014 07:31:02
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 07:28:29

Qi 
Level 55
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New Phony,

Instead of denying that you are doing this, you instead accuse me of faulty logic (based on your faulty assumptions)? I thought you were more intelligent than that? Aren't you the greatest predictor of what others are thinking (according to yourself)?

I never accused Sze of doing anything bad. Did he game the system? Yes. Did he play the best players possible? Yes. Did he beat them? Yes. So, did he earn his rating? Yes. If I played the RT ladder, would I try to do what Sze did? Yes. I have already said this multiple times. Maybe you should stop playing WL and work on your English reading comprehension.

You cherry pick from among the best players and only play the ones you think you are capable of beating consistently. Sze seems to have played all the best, regardless of who they were. Big difference.

How did you earn your rating? 1-5 vs Sze. 1-2 vs Wazz. Only 1 game vs Belzebu/Timinator/Darkw1ng/Teddy. Get a winning record against these 6 players and I will be the first to say you earned it. Keep avoiding players in 20 and I will think it is because you think you would lose more than you would win. If I did what you are doing, I wouldn't feel like I earned it. I'd feel like a phony.

"i don't care of who he joined at that time the ladder"

Teddy and Darkw1ng have been playing more than the vast majority of players on the RT ladder. And you are on WL all the time. While they wait 5-30 minutes to get a game again and again, you are not around to join? I doubt that. You see them. You avoid them. You play weaker players to have better odds of winning. New Phony, just admit it.

Edited 7/8/2014 07:52:03
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 07:37:50


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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Only 1 game vs Belzebu/Timinator/Darkw1ng/Teddy

Beelz don't play ladder from 1 months...Darwing didn't played for 20 days, and timinator play one game each 3 days, for this i almost never played them.


If I played the RT ladder, would I try to do what Sze did? Yes.

go ahead and play, we are all waiting you ;) Amen.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 07:50:23

Qi 
Level 55
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Of course you know their schedules: You watch them join and avoid playing them! ahahah

Teddy is waiting all the time. Let me guess, it is just a coincidence that you masturbate each time he is waiting to play and by the time you clean yourself off he has already started a new game?

You are full of excuses and smoke and mirror logic.

Truth is you avoid players to protect your precious rating. Gnuffone played anyone. So he lost more. Marquis cherry picks, so his rating is much better than Gnuffone's. Do you have a third account too? How is that one doing?
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 07:51:54


Master Potato
Level 59
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psst.. everyone in top 10 on ladder is gnuff
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 07:52:48


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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Instead of accuse other player, why don't you just play and show us you can take #1?
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 08:08:51

Qi 
Level 55
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New Phony, the facts are against you. You are on WL all the time. You see these players waiting to play RT ladder games. You avoid joining. You admit to knowing their schedules (bc you watch and pay attention to them). You have a total of 1 game (Gnuffone + Marquis) against 6 of the top RT ladder players rated lower than Marquis and you are are 2-8 against two top RT players rated closest to Marquis.

Meanwhile, you play the same 2-3 guys again and again, bc you know you can beat them consistently.

Just admit it. You avoid top players you think will beat you and only play such players if their rating is high enough that it won't hurt your rating too much.

Clever guy. Beat who you can beat. Avoid who you can't beat. And if anyone calls you on it, that person has to play 20-50 games to prove who has the largest testicles.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 08:21:19

Qi 
Level 55
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I enjoy your confidence. So, let's address that.

You are the best 3v3 Europe player, right? Back when dead piggy and I were 2v2 ladder teammates, I played some 3v3 Europe games with him and helped him understand the template. When he figured it out, he joined a tournament with alts. 3 dead piggies vs Sze/myhand/Gnuff. Very interesting game. He beat you. It was meaningful to all players involved. It was hard for you to accept.

You are a top team player, right? Then why are you so bad at the 2v2 ladder? It is a straight-forward template. Sure, it is boring. But it isn't difficult to figure out.

You are one of the best overall players, right? Then why are you such a mediocre LD player? Do you even play FFAs?

You are the best player on WL, right? So why do/did you cheat so much? And why do you game every ladder to make your stats appear better? If you are the best, would you need to resort to stalling, cheating, avoiding players? What is up with that?

Or is the problem a simple one? You overestimate your ability and underestimate others? You try your best in casual, meaningless games when others don't? But when you are relaxing or throwing armies around, the game truly doesn't matter? And you play so much with so many people, that you gradually convince enough people to believe your words?

Is New Phony the classic con(fidence) man? And New Phony has even conned himself?

Edited 7/8/2014 08:31:16
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 08:22:15


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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tbh, i am not avoiding anyone. I just check realtime one time each 3 days, when i have to take a game for still get ranked.

If you think i check 15hr for day the rt ladder, i will let you think it, amen.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 08:32:15


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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3 dead piggies vs Sze/myhand/Gnuff. Very interesting game. He beat you. It was hard for you to accept.

That time myahnd screwed the game...however...

You are a top team player, right? Then why are you so bad at the 2v2 ladder? It is a straight-forward template. Sure, it is boring. But it isn't difficult to figure out.

I never say i am top in 2v2 ladder, you know better than me, how is boring ;)
Sze still be doing worse :P

You are the best player on WL, right? So why do/did you cheat so much? And why do you game every ladder to make your stats appear better? If you are the best, would you need to resort to stalling, cheating, avoiding players? What is up with that?


I wanted to make ladders records and this made me do stupid things, that is the past and i am sorry, will never happen again.

You are one of the best overall players, right? Then why are you such a mediocre LD player?

To be honest, i have no idea. Though lately i am better than i was used to, i still dislike the fact you can't counter opponent, and my aggresive style isn't good in LD. It take some times for me change my style in LD. But i will never be very good in LD i think.

Or is the problem a simple one? You overestimate your ability and underestimate others? You try your best in casual, meaningless games when others don't? But when you are relaxing or throwing armies around, the game truly doesn't matter? And you play so much with so many people, that you gradually convince enough people to believe you?


Seems lately you have a lot of free time. Let's play a challenge. If you win i will shut up forever around those points, if i win you stop to be a dick. ;) Just after the 17th, bc i am busy with exams right now for play 5 hr in WL.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 09:34:09


professor dead piggy 
Level 59
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"myahnd screwed the game"
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 10:14:29


UltraLawlz
Level 55
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Lets be honest here for a second folks and stop all the gaming accusations for a second.

Dead Piggy Gnuffone Pulsey Odin Sze (insert infamous or famous #1 player) are all fairly skilled and could be most warlight players at will. Is it not possible that Gnuffone could attain #1 status on the real time ladder?

I would almost think it would be harder to reach #1 by avoiding highly rated and or skilled players simply for the fact that if you screw up once against players ranked lower than you the penalty is much higher than losing to a player as the same rating or higher than you.

Sure the system can be gamed to a certain extent by knowing which players are on and avoiding said players or playing against said players. However the system that is in place on the RT ladder is still vastly superior to being gamed than the traditional 1v1 ladder as most of the gaming issues that are at the core of the 1v1 ladder are removed.

No system is perfect and there will never be a perfect system. However, I would say the RT is a step up from the 1v1 ladder as it is not easily gamed. Not that it can't but to game it you aught to be playing pretty darn flawlessly to begin with.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 10:18:45


Master Potato
Level 59
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Lawlz, I think gui was talking about gnuffone playing only once every 3 days and avoiding playing good players in order to keep the #1 spot
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 10:27:39


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Did he game the system? Yes.

I explained multiple times that is not correct, it did not give me any unfair advantage over other players rating wise.

vs me now, you accuse me to avoid strong player (instead i just joinone time each 3 days, i don't care of who he joined at that time the ladder)


Actually that is what you requested before and I think gnuff is right here to point that out. Before you said that it'd be better to join without looking, however now that gnuffone supposedly does it you see problems with that. With the algorythm pairing up anyone regardless of rating, playing against very weak opponents is not very relevant when it comes to rating evaluation since players are so far apart it's extremely unlikely one player won't have a 100% score. If someone has an inflated rating and wants to preserve it playing a weak player once every 3 days is the way to go. Personally I don't mind what gnuff does now, atm he is the strongest player on rt ladder, I don't doubt that. I did mind that he used alts, but it's not relevant now.

go ahead and play, we are all waiting you ;) Amen.


When I stopped playing I asked zibik and Wazz to maybe join again to compete with gnuff, zibik did not have time, Wazz only joined once for 1 game. Since he does not have real competition I can understand he got lazy. Maybe you should try to give him a lesson?
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:19:40


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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This is the 3on3 in question I found it.

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=4159215

Saying that I screwed the game is a bit harsh. I do say I make big mistakes, when my game is not flawless and it wasn`t, but what was supposedly a "screwed the game" would not even be recognized a mistake by most players.
Piggy played very good, now doubt there, but he also had some luck first turn orders on multiple occassions. It happens, it was a good game still.

But we all know that Gnuff is young, he is ambitious and he considers himself the best player on warlight. Like most top players, he has difficulties in accepting defeat with out attributing blame to factors beyond his control. So he does that frequently when he loses. He is much less confident in his skill that sze is for instance, that is why he has difficulties to admit being outplayed.

Sometimes his comments make me angry and "myhand screwed the game" is such a comment. Gnuff even made me so angry that I offered him a best of 5 series, with the unique offer of the winner changing the nick of the loser.
I made this offer only to one player making me angry enough ever and that was gnuffles.
He rejected twice, the price being seemingly to high.

He is indeed both excellent and shameless in gaming the system, we all know that too. Just because Qi makes paradox accusations in one point, not all his points are made invalid through it. Not all players would exploit the system to the extend Gnuffles does it, i would again attribute it to Gnuffles extreme ambition and self-imposed pressure to prove himself over and over again, a result of some hidden inscecurities.
But this does not change the fact that he is a top player.

There is a solution to the problem, sze and gui pointed it out on multiple occasitions and we all know it. Global ELO or at least hidden opponents in the realtime ladder. Not knowing your opponent will not be perfect, but it will be a start.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:26:46


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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i am with phone, i can't look at the link.
If i remember right, we make mistake around bulgaria.
I am sorry if i blame onlly myhand.
I will play your challenge too, but it must me realtime. However till 17th i am very busy.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:30:20


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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I don`t really think bulgaria was my mistake, despite what you said in the chat. I think my mistake was me not attacking Norway the turn your army of 8 was in Norway.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:34:52


[WM] แต€แดดแดฑ๐“•๐“ป๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ฐ๐“ฎ 
Level 59
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funny myhans...

"He is much less confident in his skill that sze is for instance, that is why he has difficulties to admit being outplayed. "

have you ever seen sze admitting he was outplayed? ok. not ever, but let's say last year? ;) he always says he played better, only blabla luck blabla bad (sic) move by opponent blabla wrong guess... Never outplayed.

other than that.. well said and i double the last paragraph. Hidden identities on RT Ladder and global ELO would be perfect.

once again: how to apply global ELO in order to make it optional for people?

1) rating calculated with all ranked games
2) no expiration
3) ranking list shown on dashboard ONLY WITH THOSE WHO DID NOT HIDE THEIR ELO
4) ranking on profile page optional like eg. ladder stats, but written as:
- Player AAA Ranked BBB (CCC) with rating of DDD,
where AAA is name of the player, BBB is the ranking among those who show their rating, CCC is the "true" ranking including hidden players, and DDD is the rating value calculated

pity Fizzer's rather reluctant for that long :/
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:39:26


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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i can't remember exactly. the game, i will take a look soon. didn't piggy broked bulgaria?
i may mistaken, sorry.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:41:03


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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You are right, he will not open his comments with "Damn you outplayed me real good there".
But who does that?
Sze says things like "I should have attacked Australia", "I thought you were in Indonesia" etc.
But if you argue he will admit at a certain point: "maybe you are right"

Thats all you ever get, but its enough.

He wasnt the best example, I shouldnt have taken him.

I will try to make a list of players that are the most gracious in defeat and most humble in victory.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:48:11


szeweningen 
Level 60
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http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=6301071

Last time I felt really outplayed. Fridge, it's not that I'm reluctant to admitting being outplayed, it's just kinda rare I have that feeling of being outplayed.
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:52:27


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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"incredible how badly I played here, I underestimated your position considerably"

Thats a strange way of admitting being outplayed though ;)

Admitting being outplayed means "I played good, you played excellent" not "I played terrible, you played better"
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:55:23


szeweningen 
Level 60
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How about you read till the end?
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:56:13


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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"it's not that I only played very badly, you also played well"

translates into

"I played terrible, you played better"

But I can agree to the fact that you rarely have the feeling of being outplayed, because you are one of the few players that almost always know what they did wrong, if it was in their hands.

Edited 7/8/2014 11:58:04
Message to RT Ladder #1: 7/8/2014 11:56:51


UltraLawlz
Level 55
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SEMANTICS WARS!!!!! /opens up popcorn


Lets just all admit that the true #1 player is UltraLawlz on cocaine

also undefeated against Gnuffone :P

Edited 7/8/2014 11:57:13
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