<< Back to Map Development Forum   Search

Posts 1 - 30 of 35   1  2  Next >>   
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 18:08:36


Moros 
Level 50
Report
Hello fellow mapmakers! I have a big project I could use your valuable assistance with.

The project is this: http://warlight.net/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=28265
Some of you might have already seem this map before. I call it Diplisteurabia: A diplomacy map of historic Europe and Arabia (and some parts of Asia and Africa, but those didn't fit in the name). It stretches all the way from Norway to India to Kenya to Mauritania.

Each of the 1344 territories gets its own bonus, of which the value is always 1, 2, 3 or 4. 1 implies infertile land, 2 a town of some note, 3 a city with regional dominance, and 4 an insanely rich or important metropolis (all based on the period 800-1200).

The reason I need assistance is that adding bonuses goes too slow. Do you see that little group of bonuses in and near Denmark? That took me twenty minutes, not counting the time I spent figuring out what each city should be worth. Progress will only get slower as I am nearing the end.

My idea was this: I could transfer this map to my alt, and and the people who want to (and I trust) could log in any time they like and add some bonuses for maybe half an hour before getting bored. They would only have to check the Wikipedia article of each place to see if it's a 1 or a 2, or maybe a 3 (I want to add the 4's myself since they will be very rare, but I am always open for suggestions). All the bonuslinks have been placed, the svg file is fully done.

Even if you only add 10 bonuses a week, that will be 10 bonuses more than I could have done. Progress will still be faster, and this map will be one step closer to completion!

When everything is done and fully tested, it gets transferred back to my account and I upload it, but there will be a huge text reading "MADE IN COOPERATION WITH:" and a list of all the players who participated, and you will get all the credit you deserve. And the beautiful game of WarLight will be one map richer.

What do you say?
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 18:13:25

6th Army Group
Level 52
Report
I'd do this. My only problem is that my computer crashed, so it'd be about a week before I could access the WL Maps tab again
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 18:42:38


Urfang
Level 55
Report
I would cooperate with pleasure to this great map. So your concept is to reconstruct the realistic contemporary wealth of every regions? Its no matter that the entire map will be equable balanced and on average same rich?

I mean that for example what about the north? There are so many infertile land, not too much notable town, just a few dominant city, and almost none metropolis in that time. The desert regions are similar. These parts dont need some positive discrimination to keep the map balanced?
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 19:03:42


Moros 
Level 50
Report
You are right Urfang, it will not be completely accurate. The 2's and 3's are more based on the environment than on the whole map. Grassy plains in western Europe would be a 1, but the same terrain in Algeria is worth a 2 because the surroundings are useless desert. There will still be large clusters of 2's and 3's, but I hope I can try to distribute them evenly across the map. One cluster around London, one around Baghdad, one around Alexandria, etcetera. In general I want to have about 50% of the territories worth 1, 35% 2, 18% 3 and no more than ten to twenty 4's in total.

Edited 6/24/2014 19:08:32
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 19:35:05


Urfang
Level 55
Report
Maybe would help to keep the balance if you imagine bigger units with 50-60 territories (like Hispania, France, Arabian Peninsula, etc.) and take care that the total of these big units will be similar. If the sum of these big regions will be similar I think the entire map will be consistent.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 19:55:46


Moros 
Level 50
Report
That's a good idea. In fact, maybe it would be a better idea to figure out the value of each territory/bonus before making it, as making a bonus and then adjusting it takes twice the time.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 19:56:54


Mudderducker 
Level 57
Report
Pick Me!
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 20:02:19

CROivan
Level 46
Report
I'm sorry to bother, but I noticed some Croatian places are misspelled:
Ogutin -> Ogulin
Vitrovitica -> Virovitica
Banjaluka -> Banja Luka

It's confusing that some territories have Croatian names, and some have Latin, so I'll give you local Croatian and Serbian names (if you'll ever need them):
Dioclea - Duklja
Travunia - Travunja
Ragusa - Dubrovnik
Curzola - Korčula
Zara - Zadar
Veglia - Krk (you love this one, don't you)
Syrmia - Srijem
Belgrade - Beograd
Rashka - Raška
Bosnia - Bosna
Zachlumia - Zahumlje
Bonus:
Sigetvar - Szigetvar (Hungary)

Some names miss č,ž,š...
Sibenik - Šibenik
Bihac - Bihać
Pristina - Priština
Nis - Niš
Macva - Mačva

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datoteka:Trpimir.jpg

I would love to help, but I'm stuck working on my North America map.

By the way, the map is looking fantastic - but the bonus links are small (army number can't fit).

Edited 6/24/2014 20:03:50
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 20:05:55


Urfang
Level 55
Report
Yeah first time set the values based on realistic wealth, then compare the totals of big regions and in the case of high differecies make changes. With this method you will know that rising or lowering needed to reach balance.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 20:42:42


Moros 
Level 50
Report
Thanks Croivan, but in most cases it's old spelling versus modern spelling (or old language versus modern language). The missing accents will be replaced (as whoever made the base of my map for some reason left all of them out), but I am just not sure about the others.

I chose the smallest possible bonuslink that still leaves the army number recognizable, as especially in England I need all the space I have got.

Edited 6/24/2014 20:43:31
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/24/2014 21:51:41

CROivan
Level 46
Report
Atleast change the names of 3 misspelled territories, those three are necessary and the others are compulsory
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/25/2014 08:57:24


Urfang
Level 55
Report
I tried to count the big regions with 67 territory in every region. The result:

Hispania: 108
Italy: 114
England: 118
West-Africa: 123
East-Africa: 128
France: 128

Not an extreme differency, maybe need just a bit rise in Hispania, and low in Africa and France.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/25/2014 10:13:05


alex23
Level 50
Report
Just one question, if this map is based in the period of 800-1200, why Alava is worth 3 and Pamplona 1, when Pamplona was the capital of the Kingdom of Navarra in the most of that time, and even it was called from 824 to 1004 "Kingdom of Pamplona"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Navarre


And the same with Toledo, Burgos, and Madrid, Burgos was the capital for a period and then Toledo was the capital of the Kingdom of Castile, Madrid was just a little town, it was time after when it was set as the capital, actually it was in the XVI century.

Plus "Badajos" in Spanish was "Badajoz", the term "Badajos" was an old term in English, but the real name of the region was "Badajoz".
And "Orense" was called "Ourense" until 1939 more or less, when the regime of Franco changed the most of the Galician names (Northwestern region of Spain) "castellanicing" them, it means, translating it from Galician to Spanish.

Edited 6/25/2014 10:22:37
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/25/2014 21:37:43


Moros 
Level 50
Report
@Croivan:
As I said, I just don't know if it's a spelling error or an older spelling that was used some day in the past. The first three look plausible enough, and so do the missing upside-down ^'s, but I can't do the rest you mentioned. I really appreciate the help though.

@Urfang
I think we should have those regions positioned around wealthy clusters of 3's and sometimes a 4, but we need to make sure that those clusters aren't too close. One could be in the Nile delta, one in Ethiopia, one in Tunisia, and one in Mali. And if we make groups of territories of roughly the same size around those clusters and make sure those regions have a similar value, this could actually end up being both accurate and balanced! I will try to figure out those regions when I have the time.

@Alex
Thank you very much for your advice! It was hard finding out the important cities. For France I looked where the cathedrals were, but because Spain was half Muslim that wouldn't work, so I had to pick a contemporary population map instead.
But Navarra was a tiny kingdom, so I don't think their wealth could be compared to Castille's.
The name will be adjusted, thank you for that information.

Edited 6/25/2014 21:37:56
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/25/2014 21:45:20

CROivan
Level 46
Report
Those aren't the old names, those are spelling mistakes...
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/26/2014 04:19:56


Red
Level 32
Report
Lol there's a Greek island called Lesbos
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/26/2014 17:02:04


Urfang
Level 55
Report
I made a possible set for Hungary and West-Balkan. Used 67 territories to compare with other units what I counted previously. The total value of those were 108-128, this unit has total 116.



Rich regions:
Esztergom - royal residence, archbishop's home
Óbuda Pest - former principal headquarter, bishopric
Pozsony - fortified stronghold near to german border
Zagreb - croatian capital, bishopric
Belgrade - serbian stronghold, crusader center
Gyulafehérvár - former principal home, residence of transylvanian voivod, bishopric
Kolozsvár - stronghold, former dacian capital, transylvanian capital
Ragusa - trade center, sea port, archbishop's home
Dioclea - archonate, principality, kingdom, archbishop's home
Zara - dalmatian capital, trade center, bishopric

Medium regions:
All have at least a notable old city, and optionally a stronghold, religious or cultural institute, or merchant center

Poor regions:
Tisza river region - unpopulated with many flood basin, marsh, and swamp
Tatra region - high mountains, low population
Serbian borderland - war-torn region claimed by Bulgarian Empire, Byzantine Empire, and Hungarian Kingdom too
Rural Croatia - village region without notable cities

The main cluster is Pannonia former roman province and contemporary power center of Hungary, another smaller center in Transylvania with valuable gold, salt, and wood sources, and local centers around wealthy dalmatian cities and capitals of Croatia and Serbia.

And some naming issue, hungarian names miss the special characters (áéíóöőúüű) but the old texts miss too so I think its not a problem, but there are few misspells:
Koloszvar - Kolozsvar
Gyula Fehervar - Gyulafehervar
Orsonova - Orsova
Sigetvar - Szigetvar
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/26/2014 19:24:08


alex23
Level 50
Report
@Lawz #1 Fan: The origion of the word "lesbian" comes from that island, since, I'm not sure if in greek mythology or it really happend, only women were allowed in the island.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/27/2014 15:58:15


Moros 
Level 50
Report
Thank you Urfang, you are officially awesome. I will definitely use that.
Large empty map, in case you needed it: http://i62.tinypic.com/9bgape.png

Edited 6/27/2014 15:58:32
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/27/2014 20:48:43


{rp} Ibn Batuta 
Level 56
Report
This map is awesome, in fact I was looking uselessly for it trying to set a game. The remaining areas are not my best known, but I can help if needed to make it public.

I agree about alex point about Pamplona, tiny kingdom, but important city.

About lesbians, it's origin is on sappho's poetry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sappho#Sexuality_and_community
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/28/2014 13:53:38


Urfang
Level 55
Report
Map of Iran, 116 total of 69 territories



Rich regions:
Nishapur - capital od Tahirid dynasty
Samarkand, Bukhara - capitals of Samanid dynasty
Zaranj - capital of Saffarid dynasty
Ghazni - capital of Ghaznavid dynasty
Herat - capital of Ghurid dynasty
Hamadan, Esfahan - capitals of Seljuq dynasty
Urgench - capital of Khwarazmian dynasty
Gujarat - jewel of West-India
Shiraz - capital of Fars, cultural center

Medium regions are major cities like Qom, Yazd, Merv, Kandahar, Peshawar, Kabul, Balkh, Gilan, etc., poor regions are the rest, mainly desert areas.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/28/2014 13:59:17


Angry Beavers
Level 57
Report
hard to orientate myself on this map. its twisted a bit and is Tehran not a rich region? you have made it white here.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/28/2014 14:19:31


Urfang
Level 55
Report
I think Tehran is in "Garmsar" or "Ravy" territory here , but Tehran was capital first of the Qajar dynasty very later, in this time (800-1200) only its ancestor city existed: Rey, what was not very significant place in the middle age.

Btw from where do you get "Ravy" Moros, I cant find a place with this name nowhere. Maybe Ravy is not Rey?

Edited 6/28/2014 14:24:57
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/28/2014 20:11:56


Moros 
Level 50
Report
I checked it again, and it turned out I misread Ravy, it was actually Rayy, old spelling for Rey ;-)
And I don't think Hormuz (or Hormozia in old spelling) was quite as poor as you said. Marco Polo travelled there in 1272 and reported lots of trading in ivory, silk and pearls. I think it should be 2.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/28/2014 21:55:15


Urfang
Level 55
Report
Yeah it seems reasoned.
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/28/2014 21:59:22


Moros 
Level 50
Report
Here's the Southern Caucasus:

67 territories: 107 total. A bit low, but I think it can be compensated with the nearby Crimea area, which was all valuable ports.
Ani: capital of Bagratid Armenia
Dvin: capital of a different Armenia
Erevan: important city and trading center
Tbilissi: strategic city and capital of various Georgian (puppet)states.
Kutaissi: also capital of Georgia at some point
Semender: capital of Khazaria
Derbend: important trading city
Shemakha: capital of Shirvan Khanate
All the yellow is important tribes or moderately important towns, and the white is for tiny tribes and unsignificant towns (i.e. has stub articles on Wikipedia).
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 6/29/2014 01:20:36

6th Army Group
Level 52
Report
This map is going to be awesome....
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 7/1/2014 09:13:00


Urfang
Level 55
Report
If nobody else have started yet I try to make the steppe.

Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 7/1/2014 11:31:40

CROivan
Level 46
Report
Don' you think (Buda)Pest should be worth 4 armies?
Diplisteurabia cooperation project: 7/1/2014 12:22:13


Urfang
Level 55
Report
Buda and Pest were also important cities in this time, but as capital first under Louis the Great in the 14. century. So I think if there is a 4 army region that can be Esztergom, because that was the royal residence and the first christian religious center in the age of this.

Edited 7/1/2014 15:11:14
Posts 1 - 30 of 35   1  2  Next >>