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Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 10/11/2012 17:08:59


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 10/11/2012 17:10:46


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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Concept

The Promotion/Relegation League is a seasonal group of round-robin Warlight tournaments, always on the classic “strategic middle earth” map and settings. Players are grouped into small groups (6 on average). At the end of each season, the top players of each group are promoted to the next group above. Bottom players are relegated to the next group below. Middle players remain in the same group.

The league is meant to appeal to players who want to see, over the course of several seasons, where their natural level of competition might take them. For new, skilled participants, this means patience in getting to the levels where they will be challenged. Hopefully, that is part of the fun. The idea is to see how quickly you can progress, how long you can stay high, or how long it takes to stop a skid.

Rules

The league is run with a balance of predictability and flexibility. Final decisions are made by the league administrator (currently Chokecherry) with an attempt to consider input of league players.

Currently, the model is to typically have the top two promote and the bottom two relegate but there are exceptions. Where there is default – a player becoming inactive or asking to bow out of the league – there can be more promotions to fill in the vacancy. Where this happens in several groups there can be a lot of shuffling. The principle, though, is to almost always have at least one player relegated.

Any player inactive in the last three games of any tournament is deemed to be out of the league and can only return as a new player in an expansion or bottom group.

Placements in a round-robin are determined by number of wins. In the event of a tie, placements are determined by head-to-head results among the tied. Occasionally, there are loops of ties that cannot be resolved by the head-to-head rule. A tie-breaking tournament then takes place unless all the players involved agree to otherwise settle the tie.

Anyone can join the league, members and non-members alike, simply by request in the most recent “Promotion/Relegation League” forum thread. New players begin in the bottom group or in an expansion group. Promotions from expansion groups depend on numbers within the new groups.

Before the beginning of each season, a summary of the movements will be announced to allow for questions or corrections. The league works most smoothly if those who wish to bow out of it let the administrator know before the new season begins instead of simply declining to play after the groups have been determined and tournaments begun.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 10/11/2012 17:12:48


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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For the curious, here is a link to the season 4 thread

http://warlight.net/Forum/Thread.aspx?ThreadID=4306

This contains links to previous season threads which in turn provide all links to previous tournaments and development of the idea.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 10/11/2012 17:23:28

Grzechooo 
Level 30
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Good, I managed to keep up in group D.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 10/11/2012 21:02:14


Wenyun 
Level 59
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OK, who put Niko and Luxis in Group B? D:

Group C, make room for me - I'm coming down there next Season. >:D (Being relegated isn't necessarily bad. I felt like an idiot against the elite in Group A. Now that people like Niko and Luxis have climbed up to B, I don't think I'll feel any better in here.)
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 10/16/2012 17:27:58


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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As season 5 is getting under way, season 4 has officially ended with the final group A games over. Congratulations to Dunga for winning group A of season 4. Yet again, he is the supreme league champ!
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 10/18/2012 14:03:20


dunga • apex 
Level 57
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uhul, 4 times in a row in 4 tournaments.

It will take while to someone top that, specially because the A division will get harder and harder.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/3/2012 14:52:04


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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All groups are still in progess, but we already know this: there is a new league champion.

Congratulations to Heyheuhei who has won all his Group A games and finally unseats Dunga as top dog after 4 straight seasons.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/3/2012 16:29:26

[WG] Reza
Level 58
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Can i join? :)
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/4/2012 06:13:25


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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Yes! It will probably be several weeks away to next season.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/21/2012 16:47:44


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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Hi everyone. There are just two games left in season 5 (though one of them hasn't really started yet), and more updates will soon be posted here.

Current players: this is the time to let us know if you do not wish to be automatically included in season 6. This information is important to plan the consequential movements up or down for a successful next season.

Also, new players, including Reza, will be included in the lowest group by simply expressing interest in this thread. The "notable thread" feature of the forums might have decreased the exposure to this open league.

Question, comments, bragging and expressions of frustration or despair are also always welcome.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/21/2012 16:54:58


{rp} Julius Caesar 
Level 46
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count me in!
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/21/2012 17:28:53

[WG] Reza
Level 58
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cool.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/21/2012 18:15:17


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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you can add me in also, thanks
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/21/2012 18:50:46


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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I'm totez in this league of debauchery.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/21/2012 21:02:23


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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I'll rejoin too.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/21/2012 21:32:08


Mirror 
Level 59
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Also want to join. So count me in, please.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 14:33:55


grona • apex 
Level 58
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count me too please
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 16:04:38


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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Welcome newcomers!

Here is a preview of how I think season 6 is going to shape up. As usual there are a number of retirments to handle and this means fewer relegations and more super-promotions to try to have groups of 6. I try to do things in an objective way but want to allow for comments before the new season starts.

Currently, we have 4 from Group A, 4 from B, 6 from C, 6 from D, 4 from E, 5 from F, 5 from G and 6 from H. Here is how I see that shaking out for the new season with new groups (showing the Season 5 origins):

A - AAAABB
B - BBCCCD
C - CCDDDE
D - CDEEFF
E - DEFFGG
F - FGGHHH
G - GHHH,Reza,Hellbender
H - Remaining newcomers

Comments? Questions?
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 16:07:44


no one
Level 57
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join but probably stuck in the bottom.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 16:39:35


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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any chance for 4 superpromotions from group H instead of 3? :D
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 16:48:09


Wenyun 
Level 59
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Huh, no relegation from Group A this time? (I wouldn't go up if someone did relegate, but I went down last season when there was 4 in the A group.) :P
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 17:23:26


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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Fridge: Ha! 3 is already quite a bit for super-promotion, but you never know, I suppose if there are too many more retirements it could happen.

Kero*Sea: You raise a good point. I guess the difference in circumstances between seasons 4 and 5 are this. In season 4, you ended in 5th place at the end of a 5 team round-robin tournament and someone who ranked above you retired. This time the participants who are retiring ended in 5th and 6th place in a 6 team round-robin. The other thing that compliates it is that both Groups A and B this time are down to 4 players each, making it a challenge to fill each of the highest groups in a logical way. The other thing to consider is that if we insisted on 1 relegation for each group (not necessarily a bad idea, but difficult in practice with lots of retirements), then I suppose we would have to consider a relegation from group B, right? What would be your proposal for sorting this out objectively? I'm open to change if it can work out overall in a fairly consistent rational way.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 17:38:57


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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I'd say:

1) there could be a fixed number of leagues until they are less than 10players each.. (more players would require creating more leagues, cause it would take ages to finish a RR) lets say - 8 leagues for now - a b c d e f g h.

2) Then i would divide the total number of players by 8 to count how many players will there be in each group.

3) I would say - 3 promotions is a minimal must, relegations are dependant on retirements - eg. if a group has 3 or more retirements, then no relegations happen from it

4) I'd say 1 superpromotion/group is a great idea to make people shuffle more, or make newcomers get to their proper league faster.. and more superpromotions should happen only if there would be so many retirements that they would clean a group (or make all remaining members of a group promote)
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 17:46:02


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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by the way - i was joking about the 4 superpromotions.. I can humbly take my way up the league. It's funny how strong was group H though - theoretically the weakest of all) ;)

Maybe instead of newcomers always starting from the lowest league, there should be a round robin for all the newcomers to shuffle them into different groups? it would make it less of a struggle to join the league for best players, cause in the current system it would probably take at least 4-5 seasons to go to group A and some of the best players out there might not be interested just because of that..
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 18:29:13

hangblague
Level 5
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Fridge, I appreciate your thoughts on this.

In response to your first post, I think your ideas reflect what we've been doing fairly closely, except that the groups have been usually only 6, and with that size the ordinary promotions of 2 fits pretty well when they are that small. I am open to groups growing in size, especially if participants grow significantly - I don't know if we're there yet. I'm open to feedback on that, maybe for season 7? Superpromotions are becoming a fact of life that I hadn't anticipated, and I'm more comfortable with them than I used to be.

Expansion shuffle groups have happened in the past (when there have been too many for one expansion group), but we've never tried to slot newcomers into higher groups than natural promotion offered. We've also discussed your point about the long climb to the top. It's always been my expectation that the basic idea of the league was to allow, over a long-term participation, a gradual discovery of where your level might naturally take you. I am hesitant to stick people into high groups based on obvious ability rather than earning the higher spots bit by bit. I was hoping that would be part of the appeal.

We've had a number of strong players start at the bottom and climb up, some pretty quickly. Niko, for example, is coming into Group A for the first time. He started at the bottom of Season 2 where there were already 7 groups. He'll be in the top group now after 4 seasons of play, only losing one match, I believe, along the way.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 18:30:47

hangblague
Level 5
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Ha! Just blew my cover there! Anyway, I've not done anything unfair or prejudiced along the way.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 18:57:12


Wenyun 
Level 59
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Hmmmm... well, I'd say to superpromote the winner of Group C, relegate the loser of Group B, and superpromote another person in Group D.

My proposal would look something like this:
A - AAABBC
B - ABCCDD
C - BCCDDE
D - CDEEFF
E - DEFFGG
F - FGGHHH

This set up relegates one person from Groups A-D. For Groups E-H, there were 6 people removed in their group or before (2 from A, 2 from B, 2 from E), so getting promoted is actually the normal thing to do. Staying in the same group is essentially getting relegated for those groups.

(I'm being relegated again if this happens. Oh well.)
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 19:49:17


Chokecherry 
Level 4
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Kero*Sea, I think your set-up actually has better consistency and merit to it than mine. I'm willing to go with that, subject to further comments.
Promotion/Relegation League - Season 5: 11/23/2012 20:04:18


marc2013 
Level 57
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Hi, i'm interested in joigning the next start :)
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