Another Gui boycott?

Oh the huge manatee!!

Just to be clear, my recommendation was also (or primarily) to piggy's CLOT. Gnuff, I made china template, but I don't like my name in all of them, szeuropa has a nice sound to it, however szechina or even worse conjured by potato, blacksze are just ridiculous sounding :P

i think i started calling that template black sze.. it was that livestream ps quit because we took that template you created on the go instead of something some guys wanted.

are there going to be enough people for a 2v2 ladder? getting 4 people online at once is going to be tough, i imagine a few dozen forum goers and pros will be the only ones using for a long time.

So you want to make a rt ladder? I personally think among current ladder rt ladder is functioning much better than others in terms of competetive components. I was intending a classic multiday ladder, however the choice is yours. I am also sceptical about realtime 2v2 games.

I don't think a realtime CLOT would work. At least not without a lot advertisement. For a multiday 2vs2 CLOT with multiple templates and advertisements, I think it's possible to find enough players (maybe 50-100) who would join.

ok MD 2v2 10+ templates.

I will start with one, and once it works, add more. What is the single best 2v2 template?

Edited 6/17/2014 13:58:50

china 2v2

i say one between szeuropa guiroma and szechina.

Guess i will have to get back to work on my clot. I just wish some of the things many of are doing (adding win%) and some other standard things were already standard in the code. I have been transitioning to a developer at work so i am learning more about python each day.

I could not have less of an idea what I am doing =D. I followed the instructions on the wiki and 'clottie' is born. The last instruction is "crack open the code and figure out how it all works". Uh oh.

It is pretty hard IMO to figure out what it is actually doing at first. there are lots of modules that it bounces back and forth between. I have an intermediate knowledge of Python, so I have an advantage over someone that has no knowledge. But the hardest part for me really is understanding what was done already, not what you want to do.

I was doing mine at work, so I am going to install it at home and get back to work on it.

Edited 6/17/2014 14:52:55

Three successful programmers have made CLOTs. Each CLOT has died, due to lack of participation. Here is why participation was low: (1) lack of visibility, (2) lack of integration, (3) lack of assistance from Fizzer.

All three had popular templates:
unknown's strat 1v1 CLOT
PS's 3v3 CLOT and Greece CLOT
Krazy Chew's rotating 1v1 CLOT

Also, in each case, the programmers had to deal with bugs, troubleshooting, monitoring, and fixing problems on a regular basis. They probably decided trying to operate a mini-WL parallel to Fizzer's WL for a handful of CLOT participants was not worth the trouble of unpaid labor.

So, for those of you who think a CLOT is the answer, there is absolutely no evidence to support your idea. But, in contrast, there is plenty of evidence to prove that CLOTs will not be successful in the long-term.

The only way WL will have better templates, more interesting games, and a more competitive environment with higher participation rates is for Fizzer to make new ladders or improve the ladders he has already made.

Fizzer is indispensable. So if he does nothing, WL will not become better. CLOTs are fool's gold.

Edited 6/17/2014 15:43:21

If clots would be added to the ladder tabs, the problem of visibility would be solved. Access over the dashboard would be great!

Having a CLOT tab (and CLOT description pages like we do with clans) would help immensely regarding adoption. Most players do not use the forums.

As for actually making the CLOT, my biggest obstacles have been (1) time and (2) I know a little bit of ruby on rails + a bit of C# but not python/django, so there will be some startup cost to learn how things are set up. It's not something I felt like I could dabble with in my spare time, it seems like a large investment of time just to get started. Am I wrong about this?

I know in ruby on rails I could get started with something by (1) downloading and installing the relevant gem, (2) edit certain functions as I see fit, but (3) mostly everything is set up for me already, I just need to customize. Therefore a tutorial that focuses on this sort of process would be ideal, as well as links to cheap or free hosting. (Like Heroku!)

This is all be stuff I could figure out of course, but I simply don't have the time lately.

Pushover, even if you have the time to get started on a CLOT, you will not have time to monitor the CLOT and eventually you will view the CLOT as a job that takes away from your career (academic and/or professional), your fiends/family, your leisure time. And you will just abandon the CLOT.

Trust me, just save your time. If you are not absolutely committed to seeing a major project through to the end, why waste your time? Just because it sounds good in theory doesn't mean it will be fun or successful.

Anyone who wants to make a CLOT should first talk to unknown, PS and Krazy Chew. I am sure a 30-minute discussion with them would be enough to dissuade you. I haven't talked with them about it, but I can imagine what they would say.

Edited 6/17/2014 15:50:23

A well designed CLOT runs itself. That's the whole point of programming... automation!! The main cost should be up-front, when you're designing the web app, and additional cost for each new feature that is added.

Can some of the other people who ran CLOTS chime in? How much time did running a CLOT take away from you *after you already had it up and running and most the bugs worked out?*

Also the main difference between running a CLOT and, say, hosting a live stream (for me at least) is that the former actually teaches me things that can help my career as a programmer. :P I guess my position is somewhat unique though.

tl;dr: the upfront cost is the biggest obstacle, once it's up and running it should be smooth sailing.

Edited 6/17/2014 15:58:26

I think people should boycott the "We paid Fizzer money to play a game, and therefore he should do whatever we want" argument. It's not true, not fair to fizzer, and makes you look like a crybaby/a righknight/a hiddenhand.

And to complete the circlejerk: ^^THIS^^ :P

edit: holy shit you're allowed to join Master without changing your name??

Edited 6/17/2014 15:59:37

Nobody has to change his name ;) some have the master in the name already ^^

Edited 6/17/2014 16:04:54