The exact arguement I used Min, which gleaned an insult from Fridge likening me to a schoolyard bully. A perm ban would not be too much for the sheer magnitude of his cheating, but as he is a member I would be satisfied with a prominent cheating mark on his profile and a removal of his ladder stats/trophies. Also, Fizzer cannot use the arguement that nobody has reported them as it is impossible to report a player for cheating. You are ridirected to the wiki page which suggests using the forum.

Edited 4/25/2014 17:31:56

not this shit again. report him if you think he should be punished. punishments on this site are made arbitrarily. discussing it is pointless.

You cannot report a player for cheating. You are told to go to the wiki page, which tells you to go to the forums.

Not sure a ban is needed, but a long suspension is. Or maybe just a ban from ladders. And it does matter because i am pretty sure i played an alt of his on a ladder

Why is nobody here upset that Beelzebu just admitted to using all of the same tactics as Gnuffone to get his high ladder rating? Shouldn't they be treated the same?

Because Beelzebu didn't use all the same tactics.

What did he do? I missed that

He cheated but admitted it to make a point. Gnuffs awards need to be taken away from him, as do Bezelbub's though I don't feel as strongly about him.

http://warlight.net/Forum/Thread?ThreadID=38116

Guys - I am simply not a type of guy who treats any game that serious. This game has provided me great moments, and tons of fun the last four years, and i really like the community. I know Gnu's done some borderline inappropriate things, but your whole crusade is sad. Especially since despite what he's done, he still is a colorful person, which is without a doubt a part of this community's history. There were good and bad things to him, but it's not all black and white like some of you want him to look.

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ChrisCMU:
I also don't understand why WM has not kicked him out. I asked before and Fridge said it would be pointless because he is not playing anyway.

G.Arun:
Fridge shot me down when I said the same and all his clan and friends seem to treat it as a minor infringement

Sorry Arun, I stand by what I've said before: I DO NOT think it was a minor infringement. I think it was EXTREMELY bad. Yet my opinion is clear: 1) This is only a game. 2) I see no point in his expulsion.

His history is not all black and white. Back in the #elite! days, he was not as good as he's become after he joined WM and he joined WM very early. Furthermore he meant a lot in WM clan's history and I do believe, WM should not expel him only because the community wants him to suffer for what he's done. He was part of WM when he was doing the bad things - ok. Shame on him. And shame on WM for we had a bad apple and did not stop him when some of us knew some of his minor shady secrets. But it's still a bad apple who was a big part of our in-clan community and I feel that trying to erase him from WM history would only seem like struggling to make WM look cleaner, better. And in my eyes it would bring even more shame. Yet again - the above is my personal opinion, and if at some point the clan as a whole decides to make that move, i will not hesitate, but remove him.

If that makes you guys feel any better, some time ago Gnuffone asked me directly in a private message to remove him from WM for what he has done.

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G.Arun:
an insult from Fridge likening me to a schoolyard bully

I did not mean to insult you. It was my honest opinion. Not that you are, but that the situation makes you look like one..

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Pulsey:
Whether or not he is in WM is Anonymous' decision

It's upsetting people judge me for not removing him from our clan. I am not the Leader of WM, even though i have been recently doing virtually everything related to running it. It shouldn't be up to me, nor up to the community as a whole. It's up to Anonymous, or the majority of the clan. The mere fact that i have managing rights in WM, does not make me eligible to make expulsion decisions on my own.

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Lawlz:
It's not playing favorites. You're asking him to take time away from the development of the game in order to ban a single person and design his page to make cheater more visible. Is a waste of time.

Don't understand me wrong but I'm astonished that I hear voice of reason from you, but I admit - this time I completely agree with what you say here. Banning or suspending might not be that big of a deal for Fizzer, but altering player's statistics or profile page might require modification of the game engine since it seems to me that profile pages are generated automatically in a way that would after some time "update" the otherwise manually altered profile page.

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Min34:
A murderer or rapist whos face has been in the media has also lost his life. Wont be able to live or work anywhere normally. Still we put them in jail, why? Because they still need to get punished.

Stop this nonsense with rapists and murderers.. You are really stupid enough not to see any difference? Besides - the penitentiary system has been proven to be of no help. And finally - NO - we don't put murderers or rapists in jail to punish them. We make to prevent them from doing it again, and in hope they will take their time and realize what they did was wrong so they will not want to do it again. Interesting fact is - some prisoners punished for heavy crimes, after getting out of jail, commit the heaviest yet harmless crimes just to get back in jail, because they are in the difficult situation of knowing what they've done was bad, but still being aware they cannot control themselves fully and being afraid they will harm people again..

Beren Erchamion:
Why is nobody here upset that Beelzebu just admitted to using all of the same tactics as Gnuffone

I know of at least 5 people from other clans who did abuse the ladders using their alts in different teams. Nobody's whining while I am not the only one who knows..

Bez did use multiaccounts and alts (but tbh, I think there are a lot more) but his using accounts and misusing them is much less serious than Gnuffs.

Stop this nonsense with rapists and murderers.. You are really stupid enough not to see any difference?

Ofcourse I see a difference, I was just taking examples of people who break the rules. I could`ve taken thief and a teacher who says that the holocaust is fake. They are still breaking the rules.

The penitentriary system has been proven to be of no help.

Letting them walk around and do nothing is certainly also not going to help.

And finally - NO - we don't put murderers or rapists in jail to punish them. We make to prevent them from doing it again, and in hope they will take their time and realize what they did was wrong so they will not want to do it again.

You are right, I was wrong on the punishing part. But this doesn`t take a way the fact that Gnuff shouldn`t have any sanction, cause he might not realise what he did and might do it again.

Interesting fact is - some prisoners punished for heavy crimes, after getting out of jail, commit the heaviest yet harmless crimes just to get back in jail, because they are in the difficult situation of knowing what they've done was bad, but still being aware they cannot control themselves fully and being afraid they will harm people again..

Its a game, eventhough I think he should have some kind of sanction, I don`t think he will go crazy and do something like that again because he wants to be banned or something.

I know of at least 5 people from other clans who did abuse the ladders using their alts in different teams. Nobody's whining while I am not the only one who knows..

I don`t care about abusing the ladders. I could`ve guessed it happened and I know it isn`t one person. It is the abuse of trust and accountdetails that bothers me more.

Edited 4/25/2014 20:12:11

From what I've read Beelz is just a goof while gnuff just takes this game waaay to serious.

Come off it Fridge. You would have Gnuff get no punishment?! He undermined the game on a scale never seen before. If it is too much work to remove all ladder achievements, than a permban or deletion as a ladder participant are apt punishment. He did this to make his profile look good, so the best punishment tarnishes his profile. It is not about about prevention ONLY for the miscreant. It is also a deterrent for others considering cheating. It is an act that does not set a precedent allowing cheaters get away with it.

Edited 4/25/2014 20:15:52

I'm not saying that Gnuff (or Belz) should be banned (or that they shouldn't, I don't really care). I'm just pointing out that if people are actually upset at Gnuff for cheating they should be equally upset with Belz.

It doesn't really matter why you cheated, just that you did. It seems like a lot of people don't like Gnuff and that is shaping their reactions, not his actual actions.

It does matter because while Beez did it to make a point, Gnuff did it in a serious attempt to undermine the system in order to better himself.both should be punished though.

Edited 4/25/2014 20:24:37

"Also, I also believe he isn't the only one, Beelz confessed to cheating after his astronomical ladder rating."

I think he was more mocking Gnuffone. The things he claimed he did were the exact things Gnuffone did.

Could be wrong, but the post by Belz seems to be very much tongue-in-cheek, and not really an admission of guilt.

Edited 4/25/2014 20:38:00

Who said anything about erasing Gnuff from WM history? We have former clan mates (JSA, Lolowut, Dodo, etc) that have moved on. They are still listed on our clan pages, and their accolades are listed as well.

I just don't know why you'd want him to currently represent your clan, that is all. If I was personally in your clan, how could I trust him?

Like I said, I am not suggesting you erase him from the history of your clan, I just wouldn't have him in mine, that is all. If he came to me and said "I want to be in WG", I'd say no way. I think you need to ask yourself that. If he were never in WM, would you let him in now?

Anyway, as I said I don't think he should be banned from Warlight, but what is wrong with a ladder ban for a while?

It's the removal of his accolades that is needed. I truely think that Fizzer is portraying himself as having favourites here.

I am divided on this issue. And I think Good Kid is right. Belzebu seemed to be mocking Gnuffone, because what he said was nearly the exact same thing Gnuffone did, including the Italian friend. I still think he is probably Thanthos and Zebedeus but what he said was mockery I think.

Gnuffone did cheat and should be punished. He clearly broke warlight's rules of operating more than one account on a ladder. He did this on the 1v1 ladder with Dark Vengenance. He also has broken the rule about operating multiple amounts in the same tournament many times, but that was the distant past and he should not be punished for that.

When you look at the facts, his only rule breaking lately has been that 1v1 ladder cheat. If he has access to Flyingbender's or Fridge's accounts and uses them, that is not breaking any rules. There is a reason Fizzer has always advised against using anyone else use your account.

He didn't earn first place in the 2v2 ladder, but others haven't deserved it either :) He didn't technically cheat, he was within the rules. He cheated only on the 1v1 ladder, and he took #1 before he cheated. So you can't take those stats away either.

When you compare what Gnuffone did with the rules, he deserves anywhere from a warning to a small suspension. Nothing more.

What [WM] wants to do with Gnuffone is their choice. It's easy to say you'd kick him out of the clan, but when you actually look at it, Gnuffone has been a huge part of [WM]. Fridge said it well. If [WM] enjoys playing with him still, who are we to tell them to kick him out? It might hurt their reputation, and has already. But I think Fridge is right when he says it would be worse if they kicked him out. It brings more attention to the fact that Gnuffone cheated. Everyone would still know Gnuffone was in [WM] when he cheated.

I was neutral when I started this thread, but now I can tell I'm on Gnuffone's side. He techinically broke one rule. He's a dishonest and a cheat. But he broke only one rule. There is no way you can punish him for looking at others' accounts when they give him access to them.

Gnuff is an ugly kid, why do we care.