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Response: 6/22/2012 23:10:35

Qi 
Level 55
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Fizzer:

"Your argument is that szeweningen is self-promoting because he spent time trying to teach other players?"

My response:

I used all 80+ games I have played with [WM]szeweningen to teach a few rules to Warlight as a means to say [WM]szeweningen's teaching was nothing more than self-promotion. In the process of my teaching, I sometimes show how [WM]szeweningen misplayed and explain why.

[WM]szeweningen cherry-picked about 10 games that he won (according to [WM]szeweningen: "losing wouldn't have the same effect") to show how certain top players (BB, MC, Lollipop, unknown, etc.) misplayed as a means to say that [WM]szeweningen is better than them. For example, unknown has won about 90% of his ladder games and against top opponents. [WM]szeweningen invited him to a game (in which unknown had no motivation to play and [WM]szeweningen did), beat him, and then used the game to imply that it is equivalent to unknown's accomplishments. This is not teaching.

We both used teaching as a means to an end. His end was self-promotion. Mine was to show his was nothing more than self-promotion. Locking such a thread seems a bit ridiculous, especially given your acceptance of more harmful negativity on the forum whose means and ends have no worth whatsoever.
Response: 6/22/2012 23:31:46


NoobSchool (AHoL) • apex 
Level 58
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By saying all of this, you're starting a vicious cycle of self promotion, via degradation of what you call someone else's self promotion.


My understanding is he was using the games that he played very well, against opponents of very high skill level to show what happened well for himself, since he can explain his train of though. He don't know what other players are thinking exactly so he can pinpoint his ideas in a manner which will help others.

If he talked about games he lost, yes you can learn from them, but we (the "lesser" players) don't need help on how to lose! That's why you folks are better.

Why not just let him do his teaching thing, and you go in your direction and do your own 1-on-1 teaching thing? He was trying to better players, and by your attacking every game you played with him, ever, didn't help anyone in any way.

It's a game mate, let him do his thing, you do yours.
Response: 6/22/2012 23:40:36

bad buzz
Level 30
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some one clearly has a load of time on their hands.. what a waste of time to be honest.. anything better to do with your life?
Response: 6/22/2012 23:41:00


devilnis 
Level 10
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The best, and the only critique you could give to Sz's style of tutorial would be to do it better and let the people judge. By framing your lessons in the context of your derogatory comments regarding him, you surrender the moral high ground, and no one is going to take you seriously when you're down swimming in the muck.
Response: 6/23/2012 00:06:20


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Way to respond to a criticism of negativity by increasing the negativity...
Response: 6/23/2012 00:24:33


x 
Level 58
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aside from the fact that this is pathetic, fizzer shut down the other thread, presumably because he didnt want a response.
Response: 6/23/2012 00:33:04


J Russell Mikkelsen 
Level 4
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I'm pretty sure Gui, aka The Don aka a zillion other names, walks around every day thinking to himself:
Why does everyone have to be so dumb? Why can't everyone be smart like me? I wonder what life would be like if everyone were super duper smart like I am. That would be the best. All the world's problems would be solved. Let me go teach everybody all the smart things I know, then the world will be a better place. Holy crap! Someone else is trying to teach people things! What an idiot! They're going to ruin the world! Why does this always happen? Every time I try to fix the whole world some idiot ruins it. If I only I could rid the world of idiots. Why does everyone have to be so dumb...
Response: 6/23/2012 02:30:30

//
Level 2
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lol ^^
Response: 6/23/2012 02:38:54


ericleb010 
Level 6
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@J Russell: I'm going to go print and frame your post now to put it on my wall. I need a good laugh in the morning.

@Gui: I highly doubt anyone was going to actually read that wall of text. Sorry you didn't realise that before actually committing yourself to it.
Response: 6/23/2012 20:15:26


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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to be honest gui, i was surprised you weren't given a formal warning for slating szeniwigen like that

i don't really think anybody read all those game summaries (i certainly didn't) and i don't know what you would gain by doing so
Response: 6/23/2012 20:42:32

RvW 
Level 46
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Just for curiosity's sake: what is this thread even about!? I've got this feeling I seriously missed something (whether it was something important remains to be determined ;) ).

@Arun:
to be honest gui, i was surprised you weren't given a formal warning for slating szeniwigen like that
Whether he got a warning or not, other players couldn't see it either way; only actual suspensions are visible on a player's profile (and even then only for the duration of the suspension).

@Gui/Don/whatever:
Why on Earth do you keep (radically) changing your username every time? I don't know about everyone else, but I find it utterly confusing. I could understand changing your name to add or remove clan tags, or add "(retiring)" to your name or every once in half a decade switch over to a new handle you're using everywhere else as well, but I don't understand your name changes...?
Response: 6/23/2012 20:48:30


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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i think the same but i never really asked

i wondered for a month or two why everyone called you gui, and your name was evereux or whatever.

it took me a while to realise The Don was you
Response: 6/23/2012 20:49:39


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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sorry for the double post


out of interest, do you make any money from your WL Strategy site?
Response: 6/23/2012 20:56:15


ericleb010 
Level 6
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@RvW: http://warlight.net/Forum/Thread.aspx?ThreadID=3930

I've always wondered the same thing though... especially after joining one of your tournaments, commenting on the excessive number of copies of that tournament, apologizing after realising it was "Evreux" and not "Guillaume le Taciturne", et ensuite seulement découvrir la vérité après que tu t'es moqué, en français, pensant que je ne le découvrirait pas.

Mind explaining?
Response: 6/23/2012 21:32:54

Qi 
Level 55
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rvw,

what is this thread even about: fizzer asked me a question in another thread.

Why on Earth do you keep (radically) changing your username every time? it's not a real name. why do people change their clothes every day? my uncle don (my dad's godfather) died the day i changed my name. when he talked he sounded a bit like don corliani.

was it useful to do to szewn what he has done to others? yes. for that period of time, i was able to stay awake (and not further mess up my sleeping patterns) after a long tiring week of work and study. during that time, i was able to not think about my uncle, a damn good man.

jr, I'm pretty sure Gui, aka The Don aka a zillion other names, walks around every day thinking to himself: "how can i sleep better. how can i keep my wife happy. is what the professor emeritus at ucla told me about the history of savoy worth pursuing when i return to paris? how can i learn advanced german vocabulary given my limited time and focus? etc."

in real life i bet you are more or less the same persona you are here. i am not. i use up all my patience each day teaching kids english and history and speaking chinese at home. the other day a manager told me she thinks i am a "gentle patient scholar." now, when i come to a website for a childish war game played by grown men, i have no desire to pussy-foot. in the workplace men are domesticated enough: 'professionalism' is really nothing more than acting more and more like women! i come to this site to wage war, cuss and argue like a man, and chat with friends.

dick sharp/jr, i do you two a service. without me, who would you criticize? arun? how fun is that really? like you, i need to criticize someone every now and then. while you two tend to nitpick the words of knaves and children, szewening the pretentious university student from poland serves that role for me.

eric, tu as quel age ? je ne me souviens pas de ce que tu dit. la plupart de mes mots est soit un jeu soit pour rigoler. en fait, je ne suis pas tres serieux.
Response: 6/23/2012 21:42:26


Ironheart
Level 53
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i don't think swe is pretentious and worth critising gentle patient scholar
Response: 6/23/2012 21:43:42

Envaeronment
Level 35
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Too be honest, I learned a lot from sze as well as from you. Sze's part was more on the 3v3 europe part while yours was a little more on 1v1 strategic. I could honestly care less about who wins what. As long as people understand the reasoning behind ones actions and can reproduce them people will learn from it.

I also learned a lot in particular from watching RR tournaments between top players as there is no lack of motivation as you mention.
Response: 6/23/2012 21:44:15

Qi 
Level 55
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lol. ever have a conversation with him?
Response: 6/23/2012 23:59:20

RvW 
Level 46
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@ericleb010,

Ah, I completely missed that thread; must've fallen of the bottom of the recent posts list when I took longer than usual to refresh. Thank you for the link!



@The Don,

I'm sorry to hear that, I hope your other name changes were for very, very different reasons. My apologies for asking you the question on this occasion. :s
Response: 6/24/2012 04:32:46


DeмoZ 
Level 56
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lol. ever have a conversation with him?

Why yes, yes I have had a conversation with him. He has never once degraded you or any other player, so why would you do it to him?

I personally learned alot about picking and strategy in 1v1 due to his lesson in the chat room, and has made me 200x better in 1v1 and 2v2 and 3v3 etc. I could care less if you beat him more then he beat you. If anything, it's because you're not worth his time.
Response: 6/24/2012 16:24:20

Qi 
Level 55
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vapor, you are a young teenager, right? you fit the relationship he's looking for (superior-inferior).

i've never seen szewen show a 1v1 game in which he lost. i've never seen szewen criticize his own moves more than the enemy's. i have seen szewen criticize zibik, unknown, lollipop, and others. why does he only show wins against the best players? why does he only criticize his opponents' play and not his own? on the 1v1 chat, when readers in the chatroom offered alternative suggestions that were just as good or better than szewen's, why did he cut them down and not try to consider the alternative approaches?

if teaching is his primary purpose, he would show wins and losses and he would criticize his play as much as his opponents'. it is not that hard to do. if teaching is his primary purpose, he would've been open to alternative suggestions.

my conclusion: szewen can't afford a membership to prove his ability on the ladders. so, instead, he teaches to prove his ability. if he had a membership, i'm not so sure he would have taught anything at all. the teaching was probably just a gimmick to get some name recognition.

teaching is honorable. teaching for self-promotion is selfish.
Response: 6/24/2012 17:55:44

JSA 
Level 59
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I'm tired of hearing you criticize sze. Your probably just jealous because he beat you in Season I of [20]. Please stop criticizing him for helping other players become better.
Response: 6/24/2012 17:58:46


szeweningen 
Level 60
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Dear Don,

I think what you wrote on the forum for the past few days is an insult to your intellect, because it is clearly ignorant. As much as I enjoy arrogant people, it creates a very bad tandem with ignorance.

First of all I have never once criticized any player in the public, I always only referred to the moves. My motivation behind showing wins is very straightforward as I explained to you, I don't know what happens inside opponents head, so I can only show my motivation behind certain moves. Not to mention, I have shown 3 games so far... It might have been suspicious if I did it with 50 games showing straightforward wins... Clearly you think you know my motivations behind everything better than I do, which makes you ignorant at best.

Also about Europe guide, it was hard enough to search for my games to present specific ideas, let alone search other players' games. As you should recall right after I realeased it, because of the egotistic impression it made on you, I asked you, HHH, myhand, Salah and MC to provide me with sample games and short commentary so I could fill in last chapter. There was no response back, so it stayed the way it was.

My conclusion: I am really tired of this... You consecutively implied that I am always carried by superior teammates/won by luck, which seems weird, since I think we've been teammates in only one tournament so far (and we both don't want to be anymore). As far as my arrogant nature goes, I'll always say that is not true. You can think and write about me whatever you want, I couldn't care less. If you don't want to have anything to do with me, don't invite me to your tournaments nor team up with me, very easy. I don't know what your motivation is (since I don't really believe you can be stupid enough to think I wasted hours of my time to make 5-10 people believe I am better than I really am), my best guesses are trolling, arrogance/ignorance tandem or inferiority complex brought by a superior female... As far as I'm concerned, you've lost my respect, I definitely won't enjoy any of our future encounters. You could have accepted my challenge and beaten me months ago when I "wasn't even top 10" on europe, but you decided it's more fun to do... I'm not really sure what...

Oh, and so you are satisfied, I'll post all my most recent 1vs1 losses:
http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2838201
http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2732220
http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2806176
http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2809973
http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2834338

Judging by my profile I probably have a few hundred more of those... Probably no one would suspect I lose unless you told them...
Response: 6/24/2012 19:21:09


Ironheart
Level 53
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I once beat swe in 1v1
Response: 6/24/2012 20:13:41


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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What I find most ridiculous about all this, is that Gui is pursuing this little rant publicly. I find that if I have a problem with someone, I'd rather talk to them privately over skype or in a game to where I look less of a child. I'm defending neither of you, Gui or Sze. I think I speak for most people when I say that this argument looks extremely childish and should be left out of the forum.
Response: 6/24/2012 20:47:59

Qi 
Level 55
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[p]jsa, jealousy is not at issue here. saladin was the mvp in my eyes: he carried szewen to victories in the 2v2s and helped in the 3v3s. take saladin off his team and szewen would've come in 3rd place or so.

szewn, when preparing those 1v1 teaching games, how many top players did you invite to make such games? you only showed the wins. you lost to me and didnt show the game. who else did you lose to? hhh? zaeban? someone else? that is suspicious. only show wins, when there is much (more) to be learned in losses too...an algebra teacher can teach about any algebraic equation written by anyone. why must a teacher of wl 1v1 games only teach his own games and only the wins? teaching was not your motivation. "look at me, i beat lollipop and unknownsoldier. see how i outsmarted him on turn 2? i am so clever. see how foolish he is on turn 4? i knew he'd do that and he had no chance against me. now you see me beat top players. i am better than them, right? you see, i only win. ask me questions so i can show you how great i am."

had you taught wins and losses in a humble way, i wouldn't have said anything and would have supported you. after all, i did wait around hoping you'd show our game so that i could help you in the teaching process to make it interesting, but you lost so it didn't fit your purpose. you and i both know that teaching wasn't your primary purpose. can someone with an ego your size be so selfless?

subtly implying a top player's moves were inferior to your own on a public chat in order that you can make a (bigger) name for yourself isn't 'criticizing in public'?

my motivation: (1) pretentiousness, unnecessary dissimulation and selfishness are three things that annoy me most. (2) i am directly involved. you wasted my time by asking me to play a game you said would be used to teach people. i didn't want to play you and would've preferred doing whatever i was doing. but i was interested in helping you teach. and, as i said, i even waited around a couple hours to help you discuss our game. but then you didn't use the game because you lost. so obviously the game's purpose was not teaching but a means to feed your ego. altogether your self-promotion cost me three hours (one hour for the game, two waiting around to help you teach). (3) another pet-peeve of mine: when people waste my time for selfish reasons.
Response: 6/24/2012 21:07:52

♦CPU♦ Ryan2
Level 3
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gui stop talking about swe teaching ppl just to make himself look better. u started X to make urself look better. you are the only one that cares. everybody else respects swe. right now you are just digging urself in a whole like Red is doing with WM
Response: 6/24/2012 21:09:52


szeweningen 
Level 60
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I didn't make any more games... The game you are referring to was my attempt to make a live video commentary (I was playing you and recording comments with visual on my desktop). That attempt failed due to either my net fail or warlight fail (the remaining video consisted of a few turns). I played only 1 game of that kind with you, after which chat was implemented and I decided my connection wasn't stable enough to do a live commentary. Thus I picked some of my other games that as you did put it "did fit my purpose". Our game was played first few turns with in-depth analysis, last turns on speed. For live video commentary I needed a strong opponent, and if we managed to go through with it till the end, I'd post video regardless of result... Since my attempt failed, I used other games, since our game was just plain not-interesting. I will happily do another run of analysis, this time with 3 losses of my pick (no, my loss against you again won't be there). In fact, I'll do it tomorrow around 10 p.m. Eastern Europe time... Oh and btw.: "you and i both know that teaching wasn't your primary purpose. " That is exactly why I call you ignorant...
Response: 6/24/2012 21:23:34


BearsBeetsBattlestarGalactica
Level 19
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Response: 6/24/2012 21:25:58

Qi 
Level 55
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ryan, [x] was done when i had time and was bored with doing anything else on wl late at night when i was too tired to study or work. now i have less energy to teach. as i remember, ryan, you joined [x] and didn't learn much. maybe the focus on thinking, self-acknowledgment, and reading was too learner-dependent for you. in any case, i have had no pleasure in watching you (since i doubt you have improved at all) and instead feel ashamed (for not having helped you more and watching you use your [x] affiliation to join [wm], for which you are not good enough).

if i wanted to look better, i wouldn't have said anything at all. i do not care about appearances on a gaming website with strangers. good and bad are not meaningful here. it is a surreal environment of anonymity and false appearances. the chat itself is a game within the game.
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