OgreZed, now don´t you be too blunt.
You will scare them "believers" away from The Truth!

They have to come to terms with it from within.
Else they shut down from any logical thinking and start some mantras to reinforce their indoctrination.

The overly religious, dogmatic people could sometimes use more logical thinking, yes.

But the anti-religious people could use some love for their brethren just as much. From my observations it's almost always the anti-religion side that adds passive aggression to an otherwise friendly discussion. Unnecessary.

^ This is indeed true

Atheists don't have brethren, since that requires a shared religion. And it's not a coincidence that such a term excludes women.

Do atheists love others less than theists? The only difference between them is that most theists just reject one less god than the atheists, out of the thousands that are claimed to exist. Theists can despise those with beliefs in gods other than theirs, as well as those that have different beliefs about the same god.

The common thread for all of them is that the other groups are delusional in their beliefs. Look at the wide difference just in Christianity -- Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, Methodists, ... -- even down to different sets of sacred texts. All called the inspired word of God.

There's a joke that a child with an imaginary friend is normal, an adult with an imaginary friend is peculiar, but a group of adults with an imaginary friend is a religion.

You are a question

OgreZed, I thought brethren was just a term for both brothers and sisters, not excluding anyone. That's how I meant to use this word at least. If I'm wrong, I blame it on the English language changing everything way too often and way too quickly.

"Brethern," is an interesting word with many definitions!

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brethren

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/brethren

You both are right!

Edited 2/12/2019 16:57:56

Rento is right that language evolves over time.

Way back, it was brethren and sistren. We have many such pairs of words. Many have been replaced with gender-neutral forms. Others have had one or the other come to refer to both genders.

My point was that, historically, brethren reflected the gender dominance of the Christian religion.

How many of you have even heard of sistren before? My Chrome spellchecker doesn't even recognize it.

Plot twist. I am an Atheist who uphelds Christian traditions (most of them). Why should this be exclusive?

sistren

Never such a word existed, because plural of "sister" was always something different. Plural of "brother" being "brethren" is influence of other words that had umlaut and ending "-en" in plural.

And the use of "brethren" as in "brothers in faith" is something that exists in other languages too (I definitely haven't heard of something like "sisters in faith" in my native language while opposite is true for "brothers in faith"). Religion related words change slower than other ones. Most concepts like that used to be simply expressed by masculine gender words, despite having a more universal meaning. It's prolly related to patriarchal character of european civilization (see also: "queen" originally meaning 'a woman', only later 'king's wife').

Edited 2/13/2019 12:59:28

Language is a system of communication and understanding, it is not a concrete system like math.

Even math is pretty relative once you get to the higher levels.

Kretoma -- "Christian traditions" is pretty vague. Catholic, Mormon, Methodist, ... ? They're quite different.

Biblical traditions like: Slavery? Genocide? Murder? A god with such an ego that four of the 10 commandments are about him. Hard to follow those if you're an atheist. Most of the other 10 commandments existed as moral rules long before Christianity. Many Christian traditions were borrowed/stolen from other religions, even Christmas itself.

How do you feel about the seven tenets of The Satanic Temple:

• One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
  
• The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
  
• One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
  
• The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
  
• Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
  
• People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
  
• Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
  

Normal western christian stuff aka lutheran and catholic. The seven deadly sins for example.
This tenets are nice. Why are they called " satanic"?

Hey now, that Satanic Temple bit is baiting, and does not mean what many people think it means. They are literary a non-theistic religious and political activist group. The name is a satirical attempt to troll Abrahamic religions. They are more a kin to a political activist group, trying to remove religion from goverment than what we commonly think of as a religion, let alone what many Christians believe a Satanist is.


From wikipedia "The organization actively participates in public affairs that have manifested in several public political actions and efforts at lobbying,[10][11] with a focus on the separation of church and state and using satire against Christian privilege that it says interferes with personal religious freedom. It considers marriage a religious sacrament that should be governed under the First Amendment's protection of religious liberty, and which should prevail over state laws.[12] Because the group regards inviolability of the body as a key doctrine, it also views all restrictions on abortion, including mandatory waiting periods, as an infringement on the rights of Satanists to practice their religion.[13] The Satanic Temple does not believe in a supernatural Satan. The Temple uses the literary Satan as a metaphor to promote pragmatic skepticism, rational reciprocity, personal autonomy, and curiosity.[6] Satan is thus used as a symbol representing "the eternal rebel" against arbitrary authority and social norms.[14][15]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple

Edited 2/14/2019 17:12:14

Interesting.

I'm a skeptic/non-believer.

Bringing a skeptical kid to church once a week is generally fine, as long as the parent is willing to let them make their own choices by age 16 or so, and definitely by 18. My mom basically required my brother to attend daily religious classes that he didn't want to attend. There are definitely worse things than this, but that seems like overkill. Last I talked to him about it, he doesn't regret attending those classes. I attended the same kind of classes, and I don't regret it either.

Master Jz,

it seems harmless, but it isn´t.
It is indoctrination.

Saying it is "generally fine" because you can choose later in age is wrong.
It should be the other way around.
Teach children nothing of religion or at least its practice. And then at age 18, try to convince them of (your) god.
Because at that age they should be able to make a choice without any contamination.
But I think you would see a steep decline in your religion in a generation.


I ask you to perform two acts, if you feel comfortable enough with it ofcourse.

first, speak out very loud: "Ra doesn´t exist and if he does, he is a fool"
second, speak out very loud: "God doesn´t exist and if he does, he is a fool"


I am sure that most of those brought up in an Abrahamic religion will at the very least feel somewhat uncomfortable with the 2nd one.

How can you not regret spending hours as a child listening to magic stories and being brainwashed.
Those hours would´ve been much better spent learning a 2nd language to young children.

My mom basically required my brother to attend daily religious classes that he didn't want to attend. There are definitely worse things than this, but that seems like overkill.

I heard from many former students of such schools that the best way to have an atheist child is to send them to a religion school.

The Biblical stories and history were worth learning. As an adult, I've also enjoyed learning about Norse Mythology and the Greek Gods.

I was indoctrinated into a high demand religion and definitely don't think that was ok.

@Жұқтыру Can't speak for my brother, but going to church as a skeptic solidified my non-belief.

Edited 2/15/2019 03:20:45