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Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/18/2012 12:00:56


[中国阳朔]TexasJohn 
Level 35
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Just finished playing a 3v3 Europe 1600 map. I noticed that the bonuses for the Ottoman empire were raised, slightly, before the game began. Obviously, the bonuses need a bit of a boost in that area, otherwise you end up with 7 territories for a 3 bonus. What I thought was a bit interesting was the choice. When most people play this particular map, they rarely go for Ottoman Empire. Thus, if you are able to make it worthwile, you know you can expand pretty much undisturbed for a pretty good amount of time.

I wouldn't call this cheating, or even particularly underhanded. The bonuses really do need a boost. I even tried to counter what I knew would be Osman's strategy, but unfortunately got too tied up fighting in Germany/Austria to advance quickly enough.

Here is the link: http://WarLight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2406218

Again, I am not complaining about stacked bonuses or crying for anyone to blacklist this player. Really, the most annoying thing was the 75% luck, not the bonuses.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/18/2012 12:10:31


[中国阳朔]Chaos 
Level 49
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You're a member, why play 75% luck...? It's horrible.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/18/2012 12:15:04


[中国阳朔]TexasJohn 
Level 35
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Because you aren't creating any new games! And sometimes I just feel like messing around with a real time game. You are SO judgemental!
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/18/2012 13:42:44


The Yellow Team
Level 4
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Was it childish of me to smile when I read Chaos open with 'you're a member'?
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/18/2012 14:12:03


[中国阳朔]TexasJohn 
Level 35
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I hate you guys. I am quitting Warlight and I'm never coming back, never!
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/18/2012 23:15:08


[WM] Anonymous 
Level 52
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Please surrender in out ladder game first :)
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 05:04:42


[中国阳朔]TexasJohn 
Level 35
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I will surrender when I am good and ready. Or when my brain hurts too hard.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 12:01:41


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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if its not mentioned anywhere , its cheating plain and simple
and yeah changing those bonuses really changes a lot
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 13:52:04


[中国阳朔]TexasJohn 
Level 35
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Underhanded, perhaps. But I am truly not upset by it at all, he was merely fixing a mistake made by the map designer.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 14:54:08


Perrin3088 
Level 44
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myhandisonfire
so we're in agreement then... it's not cheating, plain and simple


![](http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/lilv47368/Itstherenow.png)
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 15:19:56


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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do you want an award for smartassery or why did you post this?
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 17:00:10

BishesUpInErr (AHoL)
Level 4
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Perrin, you obviously don't play many real time games, but checking settings when joining a real time game is not only tedious and annoying, but may also cost you your seat. Real time game creators are expected to put any out of the ordinary settings in the game message.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 17:15:50


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Bishes... how exactly can you mention increasing the value of 8 bonuses in the game title??

Hell, of the changes Ottoman is of the least concern given the massive scope of it and the relative change. It was increased by 11% compared to 100% for Romania or 67% for Khanate and Greece.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 17:34:43


Min34 
Level 60
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guys we already have had thousand post about this. It isnt really counting as cheating cause you can see it even before you join the game. plz stop about this topic
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 17:54:13


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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we have the people that actually play the game in real time and then we have the smartassing forumexperts ... yes we had that 1000 times and we are tired of repeating logic
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 17:59:43


Knoebber 
Level 54
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his name was Osman, obviously he was gonna go for the ottoman empire
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 18:02:35


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Myhand... ironic that you make such a comment given the fact that the target of it (min34) plays primarily RT games.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 18:21:05


myhandisonfire 
Level 54
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ironic that the one who was meant thinks somebody else was meant
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 18:24:41


Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
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Well seeing as I said nothing of thousands of posts and you referenced that same line it would stand to reason that you were directing your comment at min34.

If your comment was instead directed at my point regarding the number of bonuses being changed etc., well then I am impressed by the completely unrelated response.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/19/2012 20:59:01


Perrin3088 
Level 44
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you're repeating logic of.. *I can't open settings and check a huge empty spot to see if it's still empty*

there are lots of settings that can be modified to make the game more advantageous to the host.. most of them show simple yes/no in the settings, and -at least to my eyes- are alot less visible that they have been tampered with on a quick glance..
the modified bonuses box is not going from *NO* to *YES* but is going from complete vacancy, to being filled... should be, and again -to my eyes when playing RT games-, is an obvious flag showing something has been changed..

the reason for 'smartassery', is because these posts keep showing up, despite that this is one of the easiest differences to be noticed, and pointing out every minor detail that someone might think is an attempted cheat would be a.. 'tedious and annoying' process, which many times wouldn't have enough title space to show everything necessary..
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/20/2012 05:28:22


[中国阳朔]TexasJohn 
Level 35
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Wow. I was never complaining about this, I was only mentioning as an interesting game. I checked the settings and accepted the game. By all means, contine the "check settings" vs "don't check them" debate, but keep me out of it.

While agree that "hiding" a massive bonus increase (as if "hiding" were possible, since it is clearly listed in settings) might be considered cheating, in my opinion, this game was fine.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/20/2012 06:43:27

BishesUpInErr (AHoL)
Level 4
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Richard, I did not say game title, I said game message... And one does not have to explain every changed bonus in the message, simply say "SOME BONUSES HAVE BEEN CHANGED!", that is enough to tell someone to go check the settings.

Perrin, you see an open game in RT and there's one slot left open. You really want to join, and from the looks of it, it seems like a standard game, you know you don't have time to check the settings, because someone would take your slot (yes, slots often go away this fast, but seeing as you're primarily a multi-day player, I don't expect you to know that), so you join the game, only to find out the settings were tampered with, and your fun was ruined.

A simple warning in the message of the game would keep everyone happy.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/20/2012 06:46:01

BishesUpInErr (AHoL)
Level 4
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Personally Texas, I don't have problems with this particular game. I'm debating about the more general and obvious cheating that occurs when a single bonus is given hundreds of income.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/20/2012 14:57:32


Perrin3088 
Level 44
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I'm curious how you would know you really want to join before you know what type of game it is...

I picture this as some guy walking up to a group of people playing a random card game, laying down a pile of cash and saying "*okay, I'm in, what are we playing, and what're the rules?*" yeah.. you could lose your chance if you wait... but considering the wide variety of card games /*settings*/ there is a decent chance you didn't actually want to join anyways..

I'm not saying it's not nice or convenient to post appropiate settings in the message/title, or even that it's not underhanded *not* to.. but calling such a thing cheating is just plain foolish, Imho ofc'.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/20/2012 15:11:41

The Duke of Ben 
Level 55
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An option has been suggested before that would solve this problem pretty handily. Holding spots in a game while you check settings. You get one hold at a time, and the hold only lasts for 5 minutes. You cannot hold the same game more than once.

While on hold, nobody else can join, and the game does not start. You can either leave the lobby or join the game.

There is a small chance for abuse, but it's limited to a large number of people looking at your settings and deciding to leave the game. Unless a large number of people were doing this intentionally, the average wait time for a person checking settings would probably be closer to 30 seconds.

As to the specific argument going on, I'm curious if RT players bother to check boot settings, AI settings, multi-attack, etc? It seems that those settings are just as important, but harder to see at a glance. Is there a trust invovled in playing RT games that aren't present for MD games?

*I am not a RT player.
Sneaky Sneaky!: 3/20/2012 15:48:38

BishesUpInErr (AHoL)
Level 4
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Perrin, there are standard settings to Europe 3v3 games... that is, no cards, unchanged bonuses etc. Although these are not defined anywhere as the norm, it's the unwritten rule that when these are out of whack, there should be a big disclaimer somewhere. Purposely not adding such a disclaimer is, in my opinion, dishonorable to the point of "cheating." Cheating's in quotes because it's not technically cheating, as defined by the general rules of the game. However, we all have our own definitions of what constitutes cheating, and for me, this is a major offence.

Also, just as a disclaimer, I'm not referring to the game mentioned in the OP. I believe that particular game needed a disclaimer, but the changes weren't significant enough to label it cheating, under my definition of cheating on warlight.
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