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The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/25/2014 22:20:37


Master Miyagi • apex 
Level 59
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The fourth clan league is rapping up so it's time to decide on the next clan league.
General Idea: Clans face off in a Promotion Regulation style league involving head to head round robins in 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3
In Charge: I will be running this Clan League with help from Chris and Apollo.

Current Leagues
A League
WG
WM
Apex
AHoL *
VIW *
GG *
BIA *

B League
101st +
Masters +
Warlighters
REGL *
Dragon *
BR -

C1
[20] &
XS &
Gladiators
bajtan
G spot

C2
XCD &
French &
Blitz &
turtle
UN
Cavaliers

&=Chance of Promotion
+=Definite Promotion
*= Chance of Relegation
-=Definite Relegation
Regarding promotions from group C1+C2 to B, two teams from B will be dropped to one of each of the C leagues, however the top team in each C league will be promoted to B Along with 1 Wild card team drawn from the 2nd place teams in the C groups so a total of 3 teams will be promoted

Okay so now for next season. Chris has suggested and I concurred that this league should not just be a strategic maps. the new format of the league will be as follows
6 1v1s templates undecided 1 point
3 2v2s templates undecided 2 points
2 3v3s templates undecided 3 points

**This is not final, I am creating a game with current Clan A leaders and the Guaranteed to be promoted from group B to decide templates and take more suggestions, if you want to ask me questions personally Mail, skype or make a game with me and we can talk.**

More to come...
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/25/2014 22:34:06


Bananashake 
Level 60
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do i understand right, its 6 1v1s instead of 4, ect..? cool
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/25/2014 23:01:19


[WM] ᵀᴴᴱ𝓕𝓻𝓲𝓭𝓰𝓮 
Level 59
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What do you mean by "not only strategic maps"? This whole league was always meant to rank the clans by their strategic proficiency...
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/25/2014 23:49:21


Master Miyagi • apex 
Level 59
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Sorry, all Maps will be strategic, Just not All Will be ME settings
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 00:09:45


Ⓖ. Ⓐrun 
Level 57
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Imp Rom and Heavy Earth please!

Edited 2/26/2014 00:10:06
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 04:19:24


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Heavy Earth? Link? I don't want some huge map.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 04:59:39

Gone but not forgotten
Level 5
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Hey, it's JSA, back for today! This is my account I use currently (although this is the first time I've logged in in 2 weeks). JSA is being controlled by someone else currently.

So the reason for my return is just some thoughts to keep in mind with the clan league.

1. I strongly advise against making it so clans have to have at least 6 decently active members to compete. 20 had trouble finding members for this season, and so it is very likely 20 and apex will not be able to compete with this format. Without two of the strongest clans, the league loses it's power.

2. The changing of templates is not a new idea. It was brought up this clan league. It was voted down. The clan league has thrived as a league that sticks with traditional settings and it seems silly to change it unless a majority of clans want that change. If they do, then I would still be careful how much you change, the clan league is very strong in tradition.

3. I disagree with leaving the C league split. That was a last second decision and was only because of the vast amount of clans in C league. Instead, I suggest putting the demoted clans from B in C along with the remaining best finishers in C to the point that 7 clans are in C. The remainder then go to D. At least consider this idea please.

On points 1 and 2, I am very worried about these potentially messing up the league, the clan league is very popular and all major clans compete in it, why change it unless a majority of clans agree with it?

Definitely read and consider what I wrote, maybe you disagree with my statements and the majority of clans might too, which is fine of course, I just advise exercising caution with any big changes.

Thanks for your time, I probably won't log in for a while, best of wishes to you guys.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 05:21:19


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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1) apex had 6 players in it this year, not sure why this would put them in danger of dropping. all it does is allow people to play more games within the league. In most clans, people only get to play 1 format.

2) Miyagi said templates would be voted on, so not sure why this is an issue. And my proposal is we do Strat 1v1, Strat 1v1 (%0 luck), Strat 1v1 MME, along with Strat 2v2 and Europe 3v3. Plus the additions would be other main stream formats (like Guiroma).

If there is a lot of objection, we could do a compromise (say only do Four 1v1s, with the 3 I mentioned and Guiroma). I think Miyagi is going about it the right way and putting it up to a vote of the clan leaders. He has made a discussion game, they are voicing their opinions there.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 05:30:36

Gone but not forgotten
Level 5
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Apex had 5, and has only 5 active members that will play for apex unless something changes.

Before voting on templates, vote to see if the majority want to see a change in the templates and the format. Like I said, the majority last season said no to a change in format and templates. If the majority is against changing the templates and format, it would be a big mistake to change it.

Sounds like miyagis getting the clan leaders involved though, I just wanted everyone to know the potential problems of these changes, change sounds great in theory, but often it proves to not be great in reality.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 05:34:21


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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They also have the option of adding someone, which it appears they already did (Miyagi's name has apex in it now).
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 05:40:28

Gone but not forgotten
Level 5
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Miyagi will play for masters I presume.

If both 20 and apex can get 6 members, then it comes down to whether the clans actually want the change from 4 to 6 membes required. Also good to note is that this will require each player of a 6-player clan to play 3 tournaments which could deter some. If apex and 20 can't get 6, it seems stupid to change to a 6 team format...logging off for tonight, Chris, maybe add your thoughts on why the changes are good on here so the clan leaders can see both sides of the debate and decide which they prefer. I am only playing devils advocate because I want to see the clan league continue to prosper.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 06:39:03


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Well, the reason to increase it is that it makes all 3 player amounts (1s, 2s, 3s) worth the same total points. So that one does not outweigh the other.

Another reason is that many clans (say you have 8-10 who want to play) will be forced to bench players or have their best players play 1 maybe 2 formats with the current setup. It allows for more participation from a clan.

My proposal is that we limit each clan member to 4 templates, ignoring whether it is 1s, 2s, 3s. Since they are all weighted equally in the proposed format, it does not matter where the player is used. So if there are 18 player slots (11 formats), 5 players can cover all 18 spots with 2 to spare. That way a clan does not need 6 players.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 06:57:34


SkyLimit
Level 55
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Come on now, where's USW
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 07:00:32


UnlimitedLawlz
Level 54
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I'm curious, was this set up before the clan drama? UN is filled with inactives now. Its a ghost clan. There's like 2-3 people that came back.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 07:08:36


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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Both 20 and apex are willing and able to field 6 people if necessary, just don't want to if we don't have to.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 08:11:55


Pushover 
Level 59
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I would prefer 3 groups of 8 over A B C D groups, cause then it would take way too long for new clans to work their way up the ranks. Also I wonder if some clans will participate next season. I assume we won't have final groups until we get confirmation at the end of this season.

Keeping the C groups split is a dumb idea, sorry Miyagi. Please refer to frank/chokecherry's promotion/relegation league to see how promotions and relegations work with multiple newbie groups.

I think a clan league format for larger clans where more players get to participate would be great. Maybe that can be a separate event. I know Gui was trying to get something like that going but it fizzled out pretty quickly.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 11:07:47


Bananashake 
Level 60
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i agree with jsa in most, except the 6 players thing. i think its good that you must have atleast 6 good 1v1 players to have a chance here.

also its silly that C is splitted. should be made a D with the bottom 3 in each C group.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 13:28:29

Jehovah 
Level 58
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i didnt read any of the above posts, make 4 groups, points system should remain the same (2 points 1v1s, 3 points 2v2, 4 points 3v3). 3v3 should remain as EU, 2v2s should be 1 Medium Earth and 1 EU or rome, and then maybe 2 1v1 medium earth and then 1v1 on EU or whatever map.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 14:24:58


<SNinja>gg
Level 31
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i think that SNinja might be interested... if it is open registration then i will ask my clan mates if they would like to participate.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 14:38:52


Bossss
Level 55
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Good point sky, I think USW would do pretty good in this :)
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 15:29:22


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Well, you can't make groups too large (8 in a group means a lot of games in RRs). Especially if you are increasing the template amount. If you also increase the group size that is a lot of extra games. I think 6 clans per group should be the target amount.

But I agree with Banana, turn it into C and D now that none of them are new to league.

Edited 2/26/2014 15:30:03
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 18:19:48


NecessaryEagle 
Level 56
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I'm not sure how popular this is, but I'd be willing to go even smaller. Smaller groups mean quicker seasons. I would be fine with 5 or even 4 clans per level. This also creates opportunities for larger clans like REGL to use more players over a span of time (switch out between seasons) but doesn't hurt smaller clans at all.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 20:19:57


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I would be fine with that too, especially if clans like apex are worried about the increased game load. But that would all need to be voted on IMO. The trouble is where do you cut it off? Since many good clans have not had a shot at league A yet, you'd be potentially denying them a promotion. Assuming the standings don't change a ton...WG/WM/Apex have proven to be the top tier. If you went to 4 clans, it would be very hard to select that last spot. I would say you'd have to stick with 5 at least and include the promotions from B (101st and Masters). Anything else would not be fair. But the issue there is you do end up relegating an extra 2 clans from A. I am sure the two clans that finish 4th and 5th (out of AHol, VIW, GG) would not be happy about that. Also, that generates ripple effects down (XS or 20 would miss a promotion). I think it can't be cut to more than 6 clans, but sometimes you'd have to do 7 (because there are too many C promotions. Maybe like this?:


A League
WG
WM
Apex
Masters
101st
AHol/VIW/GG (4th place from current season)

B league
AHol/VIW/GG (5th place from current season)
AHol/VIW/GG (6th place from current season)
[20]
XS
XCD
French
BIA

C league
Warlighters
Blitz
REGL
Dragon
BR
? (highest score from team listed in D league list)

D league
Gladiators
bajtan
G spot
turtle
UN
Cavaliers

Edited 2/26/2014 20:31:49
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 20:30:34


<SNinja>gg
Level 31
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SNinja is interested if we can join
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/26/2014 20:33:13


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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gg- you'd be in D on my list (and one team would move up to C). But you probably need to send Miyagi profiles for your team (if you have it).
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/27/2014 06:21:58


Pushover 
Level 59
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I am not in favor of having groups contain fewer than 7 teams... we went into the season expecting 2 relegations only. It'd kinda suck if the 5th place team gets relegated from group A.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/27/2014 06:37:15


Wenyun 
Level 59
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Honestly, the one thing I'd object on that list is the fact that all 4 non-promoting clans from group B were relegated.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/27/2014 16:14:23


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Pushover - the 5th place clan in A from last season was relegated (REGL). Only WM/WG/Apex/AHol were in A last season and this season.

I'm not saying it should be that way, but it would have to be if the league size was trimmed. Perhaps trimming the league size is not the best way. I just offered that as an alternative because there was concern about increasing the amount of games.
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/27/2014 18:55:14


NecessaryEagle 
Level 56
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If you went to less than 6 it would have to start with season 6, but you'd set season 5 up to work into it. You couldn't just jump to that right now. You would go to 6 now, then split something like this after the season

A = top 4 from A
B = other 2 from A + top 2 from B
C = middle 2 from B + top 2 from C
D = bottom 2 from B + middle 2 from C
E = bottom 2 from C + top 2 from D
F = other 4 from D
The Fifth Clan League: Information and Lineups: 2/27/2014 20:11:07


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I agree IF you change the league size, it must be known going into a season. That way the teams competing know what slots are getting relegated and promoted.

My list was meant as more of an example of how that would break down based on the current season.

Edited 2/27/2014 20:11:46
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