^The Confederacy was unfortunately not a fascist state. It could have done much more.

Edited 3/17/2018 06:07:18

I can fly those flags if I want. I can fly any flag I want to. None of it's illegal. Land of the free.

But I don't want to. I would never even touch those flags unless it was to burn them.

Ignoring the historical issues stated at the beginning, lets narrow in on two points I haven't seen yet:

1. So, you pick a flag specifically from a certain period of time where the South engaged in active rebellion against the north to wave as your "Heritage," rather than any other flag (the state flag, the american flag, hell even an old pre-revolution flag).

2. Somewhat related, You're waving about a flag that represented, who was it again, oh right, traitors. That's not patriotism, its barely-restrained separatism.

You're allowed to wave it, but I'm just going to assume you're a nationalist, separatist asshole and/or idiot.

Edited 3/17/2018 19:48:47

Why cant you guys, like, move on?

Fair question. The answer is that how we understand the past colors our understanding of the present. Another answer would be to say that the Civil War was the beginning of a conversation. That conversation has not ended.

The topic is the Confederate flag, which was the battle flag of an army 150 years ago. However, today, it's not the same flag it was then.

That is true too. The Confederate Battle Flag is not the same flag it was during the Civil War. It is also what was added to the flag of the state of Georgia in 1956, and which remained there until 2001 when a new state flag was adopted. In the view of a report which was issued by the State of Georgia the modification of the Georgia flag was in response to an attack on institutionalized segregation along lines of race. The men who changed the flag of Georgia, in 1956, wanted to send a message that segregation would remain in force. A message of unbending pride in what Georgia and the South was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29

As true as it is that the flag has been about segregation and resentment of the U.S. government's rulings on integration there is another side.

The other side of the coin is that the flag has been a symbol of lighthearted rebelliousness, as in Waylon Jennings.

Waylon Jennings, Good Ol' Boys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qogVHlmFcx0

You're waving about a flag that represented, who was it again, oh right, traitors.

Have you forgotten that this country only exists because of a few very determined traitors who were unhappy with their situation?

So that makes all traitors okay? I guess Robert Hanssen is a really cool guy? Julius and Ethel Rosenberg? Benedict Arnold? They're cool, right?

Oh, wait, they all either died or went to prison, and nobody likes them very much. You all have chosen the LEAST American part of your history, all of four and a half years, and decided THAT's your true heritage. You're allowed to wave it, but I'm just going to assume you're a nationalist, separatist asshole and/or idiot

You all have chosen the LEAST American part of your history, all of four and a half years, and decided THAT's your true heritage.

Yeah. That's because people have always shit on Southerners ever since Southerners have existed. No one has ever liked us. The Civil War was when we finally stood up for ourselves. Success or not, of course we're gonna reminisce on it.

Besides, as backwards as it may seem, some of the most patriotic people are in the South. We love this country--it's just that we would love it more if we were separate. We think this is the greatest country on planet earth, but that doesn't mean we can't do better. That's why a lot of people fly the Confederate flag and the American flag--to pay respect to the country they live in, and the one they hope to someday live in.

I understand how you could think I'm an idiot or an asshole for waving a flag like that, but I'm not the one that chose it as our symbol, and unless you grew up in the South--and I don't mean Houston or Miami, I mean the backcountry, where you'll actually find genuine Southerners, not discount New Yorkers--you couldn't understand both the sentimental and traditional value of the Confederate flag. Even if you did grow up in the South, you don't have to wave it or even take pride in it; but surely you can understand what it means, at least.

And no, it doesn't make all traitors okay. But it doesn't make them all bad, either. Instead of saying "all traitors are good or bad," we should look at the cause they're betraying, and their motives for betraying it. Like Snowden--he's a traitor against the US. But was it for a good reason? I believe so.

The motives behind the Confederacy's betrayal are controversial at best, and I'm sure there were a few higher-ups who wanted to betray the US for less than honorable reasons. But as a whole, I don't believe the South would have sent 750,000+ men to war just to preserve slavery. You must remember, the victory writes the history books, and claiming that the Confederacy seceded to preserve slavery was a surefire way for the Union to make sure people kept hating the South. Not saying that's for sure what happened--but can you really say that's not what happened?

Anyway, that's entirely off subject now; point is, the Confederate flag represents Southern pride, not "Damn I wish blacks were enslaved again."

Edited 3/18/2018 16:28:43

Why pick a flag from a controversial period of rebellion against the government (which some would even argue as betraying the nation even though nations and states are not the same thing)?

It's a valid question.

You have to consider what goes into a symbol that makes it worthy of its status. How the outsider - the person to whom this symbol means nothing - receives it, is more than irrelevant. A great symbol spites the enemy, for its primary aesthetic function is distinction. Relevant to the symbol is also the sum total of all the greatness that made it exceptional throughout history. Men died for that flag, and they were survived by their friends and families who remembered it. Why replace something people literally died for with something sterile, normal, unoffensive, etc.?

The very fact that people are offended by this flag stamps it with nobility. Those who fly it are set apart from those who tear it down.

Opponents of the flag are not concerned with patriotism or national loyalty. The people who want the flag taken down are the same people who unironically believe "when Fascism comes to the US it will be draped in the American flag". They don't like flags or anything that distinguishes between different people. They hate collective histories and symbols because they are immersive reminders to the different cultures that the progressive dream of a completely mixed, culture-less, consumerist human population is a pipe dream or a dystopian nightmare.

What the Confederate flag represents to the Progressives is a group of unapologetic, living, breathing White people who refuse to give up their identity and participate in the new global society. To the Progressives this is a crime worse than slavery and separatism.

In my opinion, you can wave it wherever you want unless it's on someone else's private property. However, to wave what many believe to be the Confederate Flag is dumb. Heritage, I understand. But if so, actually wave one of the national flags, not a battle flag. We should be proud of achievements of our country, and not of the wars it has started.

tbh the Confederacy didn't accomplish much outside of battle, so I think the flag chosen by the people to be flown today is the correct one.

Just wave it to piss off mainstream folk, along with a nazbol and Russian flag for good effect

Yeah, brilliant. Because the Confederate flag definitely needs a worse image than it already has.

Just wave it to piss off mainstream folk, along with a nazbol and Russian flag for good effect

KINO

^^Because liberals have wrong axioms.