<< Back to Off-topic Forum   Search

Posts 1 - 30 of 31   1  2  Next >>   
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/18/2017 14:05:49


Rikku 
Level 61
Report
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4894706/German-girl-joined-ISIS-face-death-penalty.html

What are your thoughts on this article from a HIGH QUALITY Newspaper!

It's clear that she was in a turbulent state during her recruitment but that only holds so much water. It's a thoroughly dismal story.

I was Gunna right some more but tfw headache
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/18/2017 20:52:45


Tchaikovsky Reborn
Level 38
Report
You joined an internationally despised terrorist organization which has caused the deaths of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians. And you married a Chechen dude and decided to follow him to fucking Iraq, a place where its pretty well-known that you shouldn't visit. They found her armed, and she admitted to serving in combat along with her husband and attacking Iraqi troops.

I'm pretty sure she can be accounted for some form of treason, some form of conspiring with terrorists or being a terrorist, and violating some pretty basic human rights. Death penalty seems a tad extreme, but definitely 30-life in prison. However, if she's tried in Iraq, there's no question of her being killed.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/18/2017 22:17:23

Anthracis
Level 9
Report
Good thing Iraq has the death penalty.

Edited 9/18/2017 22:31:06
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 02:52:17


Padraig
Level 50
Report
Unfortunately for this young woman, if as is stated in the article, she served as a combatant with ISIS, then she is not afforded the protections which are customarily granted to prisoners of war who had served a recognized government. If the German government negotiates on her behalf, that is proper in so far as she is a German citizen. And if she then runs afoul of the German law, that would be a kinder fate then she may deserve.

The situation of Linda Wenzel raises the thorny question of the degree to which young people are held responsible under the law. In some countries, such as Indonesia and the Dominican Republic, when an individual marries they are granted the right and responsibility of the vote. Presumably because by marrying they are thought to have entered fully into the adult world. It should be noted that this is not true in either Iraq or Germany. My point being that when she fled her country she seems to have been, in a very odd way, seizing the status of adulthood. She married, she gave birth to a child. And if we are to believe the report, she killed or attempted to do so in defense of herself or her cause.

I am inclined to think that young people are in some ways infantilized by their status under the law, in the West. They are treated in ways that are curiously inconsistent.

I am enough of an old school libertarian that I would rather make an error in granting the rights and responsibilities of adulthood over generously, then see them denied to someone who demands them. But that blade has two edges. Regardless of whether Linda Wenzel was ready to be an adult, she is now learning that with freedom comes responsibly for ones actions.

If she wanted to run away from home she could hardly have picked a worse direction to run towards.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 03:01:32


Padraig
Level 50
Report
Rikku, do you think the Daily Mail is a high quality paper?

My thought on the subject doesn't go much farther than to notice that it has all kinds of annoying popups and animations on its pages, which I do not like. So I avoid reading it.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 03:39:03

Anthracis
Level 9
Report
Is the rationality or maturity of this individual important in a judicial context? I don't believe so. Naivete and romanticism should not spare one from consequences; those traits, combined with the crime itself of joining ISIS, should guarantee the death penalty. The inferior (simply, individuals who act destructively and immorally) should be deprived of life, regardless of their capacity to understand right from wrong. Justice should be carried out to prevent immoral and destructive acts, to make good on the promise as a deterrent, and to honor the fallen. Every soldier who died fighting ISIS will be forsaken if this woman is not deprived of life.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 03:54:42


Padraig
Level 50
Report
And how in general are ISIS fighters treated by the Iraqi Government?

Are they executed, if captured, as a matter of course?

If they are not, is it proper that this woman be held to a higher standard, and so pay with her life?

These questions are not rhetorical.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 05:51:01


{Canidae} Kretoma 
Level 58
Report
Strange, nothing in German media about this...
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 14:43:12

Anthracis
Level 9
Report
How Iraq treats their prisoners is as irrelevant as the final verdict in this case. My concern is how ISIS fighters should be treated, and the treatment of choice is the death penalty. Anyone who joins ISIS, regardless of their psychological state, forfeits their right to live. A truly superior civilization gives the grandest punishment to its grandest enemy.

Edited 9/19/2017 14:50:04
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 16:05:15


Strategery
Level 56
Report
The Geneva convention (s) do not apply to a combatant who refuses to wear a uniform. A core concept of the convention is to provide human rights to armies that decide to wear uniforms, enticing both sides to wear uniforms which makes distinguishing between soldier and civilian easier. This minimizes civilian deaths and encourages both armies to conduct a "gentlemen's war".

The idea is that if all armies wore a uniform then civilians can't be mistaken for combatants and if a uniformed soldier DOES shoot a civilian then it is easier to prosecute them. "I thought the civilian was the enemy" is no excuse if the enemy wears a uniform.

Non-state actors refuse to wear uniforms because it gives them an unfair advantage. They can blend into the civilian population. Furthermore, the higher the civilian deaths caused by anti-insurgency forces the larger the insurgency grows.

It also means it is harder to prosecute soldiers who shoot civilians. When the soldiers walk free it only encourages more civilians to join the insurgency.

The Geneva convention doesn't apply to un-uniformed combatants for this reason. Torture, death, rape, and slavery and are acceptable to a captured un-uniformed combatant. I say hang her.

Edited 9/19/2017 16:06:34
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 16:36:54


Japanball
Level 56
Report
"Let's enact the laws and legally execute some peahens like Saudi Arabia does"

WHAT?
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 17:51:54


Padraig
Level 50
Report
^
Tabby is indignant at the thought that someone somewhere might be happy.

Hence he advocates that we adopt the odious governing philosophy of our Muslim enemies.

The fact that this is occasioned by the unfortunate behavior of Linda Wenzel is incidental.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 18:39:51


Rikku 
Level 61
Report
Rikku, do you think the Daily Mail is a high quality paper?


It was a satirical comment , afaik it is the most popular English language speaking Newspaper. There was a very apt quote about it but unfortunately I can't find it again , roughly stating ; On it's good days it is a wonderfully crafted affair on it's bad days it can be foul.

That is quite rough if you want to narrow down the source it was from someone (formally?) involved high up in the news industry (Chief editor in the past of some paper?).

Personally I enjoy the paper on occasion.

Edited 9/19/2017 18:41:22
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 19:00:51


Bane 
Level 60
Report
relevent to tabbys post

German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 19:07:06


Japanball
Level 56
Report
People will kill you instead
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 19:12:05

Anthracis
Level 9
Report
Executing peahens is a great idea. Hanging them is too lenient though. They should be broken on the wheel instead.


Deriving satisfaction from a cruel execution of your enemies is decadent and defiant of the spirit of the right, just execution. People are put to death because they are in the service of the enemy, which must be totally annihilated - if the "enemy" isn't fit to be annihilated, then it isn't the true enemy. The death penalty is an obligation, not a pleasurable act of revenge.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 19:13:59


Japanball
Level 56
Report
They will use nukes
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 19:21:09


Japanball
Level 56
Report
Ah, trolling
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 19:49:29


Japanball
Level 56
Report
Why cat food? What have cats done for humans?
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 19:51:50


Eklipse
Level 57
Report
Tabby is known to troll. But he's also a psycho with zero humanity. So he may or may not be serious here.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 20:47:02


apollong3
Level 53
Report
^Your last comments proved it.

No, you are not that awful. You are so, so much worse.

At least you won't have children to indocrinate with your batshit ideology, so hey, that's something.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 21:59:17


Cata Cauda
Level 59
Report
@Padraig Islam is a great problem. Peafowls are a worse problem.

ISIS is ossified, idiotic and cruel but not degenerate. That title goes to peafowls who are even worse than ISIS.
War is always degenerate, Daesh included. It destroys culture, families, history, just everything. In very rare cases the positives have outweight the negatives.
Daesh is a prime example of a totally irrational ideology. They even refuse to accept their incoming defeat and keep fighting instead of preserving their manpower.

Rikku, do you think the Daily Mail is a high quality paper?
I read it on the Internet alot that Daily Mail is so bad. Is it really that bad, or do people just echo each other?

Edited 9/19/2017 22:03:08
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 22:13:48


Padraig
Level 50
Report
Anyway don't ever allow a really bitter man like me to get any power. That's frightening.


I promise you I would make every effort to see that would not happen.

I got your back, that's what friends are for.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/19/2017 22:40:49


Bane 
Level 60
Report
No website respects him
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/20/2017 00:19:29

Anthracis
Level 9
Report
War is always degenerate, Daesh included. It destroys culture, families, history, just everything. In very rare cases the positives have outweight the negatives.
Daesh is a prime example of a totally irrational ideology. They even refuse to accept their incoming defeat and keep fighting instead of preserving their manpower.


War between small professional armies (willing participants) where the rules of engagement are clearly defined - such as war between feudal kingdoms in the European Middle Ages - provides a means for men to exhibit heroism and honor. Total war between superior people and barbarians is also generative. Modern war is degenerate because it is fought for "peace"; heroism is seen as "brutality" and cowardice is seen as virtuous.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/20/2017 01:42:31


Padraig
Level 50
Report
Is the rationality or maturity of this individual important in a judicial context?


In the tradition of the Law, in the West, there is a long history of the principle that the state of mind of an individual has a bearing on the question of that persons culpability, and indeed upon the question of what punishment should -with justice- be brought to bear.

The lack of mens rea (Latin legal term for "guilty mind") or a person being Non compos mentis (Latin legal term meaning "not of sound mind") are concepts which are directly concerned with the state of mind of a person who is being judged. And it is the case that the young are given special consideration by the law.

It is in accord with the wish to live in a just society that this should be the case.

The rationality and the maturity of Linda Wenzel, or the lack of those qualities, are and ought to be important in a judicial context. Further exactly what her actions were, as opposed to what we might guess her actions were, is relevant.



On the field of battle we may kill our foe when under threat, with the most extreme prejudice, but having captured our foe, we hold our selves to a higher standard. We do so out of a concern for our own decency and virtue.

It is beneath us to do otherwise.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/20/2017 02:07:23

Anthracis
Level 9
Report
We are always under existential threat from a foe, so it is always justified to kill him. At no point is any organic force simultaneously at peace with every other organic force; life is war. Virtue is transcendent, but not in the context of kindness toward enemy, since enemy is threat to form and form is transcendent; kindness toward enemy is symbolic of surrender and on a grand scale, kindness is simply surrender itself.

It is in the nature of the young to act irrationally, so we don't put children to death for crimes. It is not in the nature of an adult to commit crimes; a retarded adult is an inferior adult, or a failed adult. A 16-year-old German ISIS fighter is inferior, decadent; a traitor.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/20/2017 03:42:08


Padraig
Level 50
Report
I am not advocating an excusal of whatever her behavior may have been because she is young, and/or naive. She is subject to the treatment the Iraqi government decide to give her.

But we were not there.

If anyone may make a determination as to what she did, or did not do, it would be the men who interrogated her upon being captured. I am not satisfied that the mere fact, of being married to one of these damnable ISIS-men, merits death. If she fought for ISIS, and killed for ISIS, she is a killer.

If she did not, then the situation is more nuanced.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/20/2017 03:48:32

Anthracis
Level 9
Report
Every ISIS member should be executed.
German girl joined ISIS face death penalty: 9/20/2017 16:21:47


Japanball
Level 56
Report
@TAbby why are cats great?
Posts 1 - 30 of 31   1  2  Next >>