But isn't that unfair to punish one side of that equation (WM) and not the other (GG)? It would seem more fair to take half the points from both, although that could end up relegating GG, which would suck for them. If you take them from WM, it won't really change anything, although those points should be awarded to the losers of the games really.

It seems to me you either do nothing, or take half the points in both 1v1s and give them to the losers in each (since you don't know who would have won or lost anyway against a replacement player).

In #1: BIA, WG, GG, AHol all get +1...WM gets -4
In #4: AHol, apex, WG, VIW get +1...GG gets -4

Result:
WM -4
GG -3
BIA +1
apex +1
VIW +1
WG +2
AHol +2

Edited 3/13/2014 17:47:07

I don't think we should punish GG, they didn't know Gnuff was playing for them nor did they want him too. Punishing them for that would seem really unfair. Punishing WM won't change the standings much so not really useful. I'd just leave the scores as it is now.

Whether or not GG knew who was playing for them, they benefited. If you really want to be "fair" GG should nominate another player to replay master of strategy's games. Or, if you really want to be cruel, remove all the points gained from all games won by both Gnuffone and Master of Strategy. :P

If VIW gets relegated due to Gnuffone's shenanigans I'll be really pissed. Let us shoot our own selves in the foot TYVM. >.>

Imo, we do nothing and ban Gunff from league for breaking rules.

But if you take away points it should be from both

Banning Gnuff does nothing, he's retired and not coming back. Stripping the points while it may not change the standings have the symbolic middle finger I want to give to Gnuffone for cheating during the clan league should he ever know we stripped his points.

As for GG, they were unaware of it being Gnuffone until after the games were done. I think there's some logged proof somewhere. Regardless if both need to be stripped idc.

We didnt know Gnuff is MoS. Points from us cant be taken from that reason. If anyone think diffrent i am willing to play those games again by myself, but that would only means we are gonna get more point ;-).

As the leader of the 4th clan league, I am of the mind to leave it as be. Fridge and other wm's should not be punished for gnuffones cheating. GG had no idea master of strategy was Gnuffone, and there is no way they should be punished. The only thing this could affect for wm is whether they get second or third compared to apex, and they earned second, it's not right to strip them of it. If Gnuffone ever does come back, he won't be allowed to play in the clan league.

But Jay, isn't it clear that at least some WM's knew about Master of Strategy being Gnuff's alt? Yet they decided to keep quiet about it, effectively ruining a part of your league and collectively disrespecting it. The whole clan is responsible, and they haven't even expelled Gnuff yet. Do they really condemn Gnuff's actions?

By the way, we know Gnuff had an alt at least in REGL. Maybe he applied similar tricks to REGL last season and got illegitimate points for WM there as well?

Edited 3/15/2014 01:12:03

Well Pulsey imitator, I must say, you do a perfect job of imitating him, but he told me a while back who you are, and your interest in politics about Crimea confirmed it :)

But to the real point, I understand your reasoning, I just think it's a small point and not worth arguing about. How do we know which wm players knew? Was it just Gnuffpme? Or did fridge know as well? Do we kick their whole clan out for bad sportsmanship and cheating? Or do they lose a couple points? It's too much to fight about and relatively pointless.

Which regl player is he? He has always said he has an alt in 101st, but I still am not certain. He probably has an alt in viw too, but who? Is it worth combing through these clans to find Gnuffone? For me, it's not, if one player does too well and raises suspicions, ofc they'll be checked by some to see if they are an alt.

You're right, maybe it's too little to do anything about. It's obvious that the whole WMID knew about MoS. I don't know who in REGL is Gnuff's alt.

Who all is part of the WMID? I know Gnuffone and fridge, both mentored by burning bridges...I don't think they trusted anyone else though...or did they?

The more I think about it, the more I think this wmid thing is a recipe for a player like gnuffone to abuse the intel big time.

But the WMID story interests me, for some reason, I really love warlight history and this investigative department is a big part of warlight history.

I don't know who exactly, but I suspect their clan leader knew about it. Just speculation though.

Possibly, although it seemed like anonymous was left in the dark on a lot of things because of his low activity, especially lately, Gnuffone has pretty much led the clan unoffiially.

So now instead of Gnuffgate, it's warmastergate.

Gnuffones alts have left not only a bad reputation for himself, but also to a smaller degree, his whole clan.

WMID was Me, Gnuff, BurningBridges, Chapter24, Pink, Trolussa, Malamute, Blue, MoS, Orange. ;) Meh, but seriously - it was only us three.

We kept most things to ourselves (at least i have). WM "regulars" knew about sze-mannerheim investigation, but not about alts. Piggy knew we've had intel on other clans - specifically orange#elite!

Gnuff's account is not removed from the clan page, but i guess it's only because he's inactive and inspite of being infamous for what he's done, he's played a huge role for WM without cheating, and is one of the very core of the 'olde WM. Besides - it makes it easier to find the clan on the clan list which for some reason is sorted by total points..

As for the penalties, I guess WM's opinion doesn't count here, especially mine for that matter but i would really appreciate if you did not punish my mates for what Gnu did. These are some really great guys and would have never done the same.

Orange#elite! was stolen coz original orange is Dutch Desire |GG|. Until now we didnt knew who have stolen that account from him but now it is becoming more clearly... Can You tell us who`s alt was Orange?

Update
1 WG Points 75 Max Points 78 Place 1st
2 WM Points 68 Max Points 68 Place 2nd
3 apex Points 55 Max Points 65 Place 3-4th
4 AHoL Points 55 Max Points 55 Place 3-4th
5 GG Points 45 Max Points 52 Place 5-6th
6 VIW Points 39 Max Points 45 Place 5-6th
7 BIA Points 25 Max Points 31 Place 7th

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Arn0ahIN9qcsdDM2VU9mUnFONmltYjN1ZlBWTDlXV3c&output=html

the season is very close to the end and VIW's chance to stay in group A is mainly theoretical

So VIW has to win both 2v2 games (AIR/Push vs apex and Carlos/Moo vs BIA)and GG has to lose their 2v2 (vs BIA) and 3v3 (vs apex).

That will be a tall order to have all 4 of those games go their way, but not impossible I guess.

I really really REALLY wish AIR and I didn't lose our game to GG, that was pretty huge -_- But hey, we're not dead yet! :P

Score update: GG won the 2vs2 against BIA.

Thanks, so we know VIW will be down to B next season.