Since I made this thread http://warlight.net/Forum/Thread?ThreadID=13327 we have had 2 more boots decide games in the top 5 teams. Is this really necessary?

Ladder needs dedicated players.

from your post, I understand you enjoy great games with best moves from both side. You want the 2v2 ladder full with games like that.

However, ladder is about how much dedication you are willing to put into, too.

Apart from your skill level and understanding to the game, you are also required to work with your teammate, arranging discussion time per day, research opponents' playing style etc

It needs a lot of time to be spent. If you failed to do so, you failed the ladder requirement.

You could say that the autoboot game balance could be extended a bit, since too many players being booted, but I see it as a punishment to those really dedicated team.

It affects the ladder rankings, yes, too many teams earning false wins. However, the less dedicated teams deserved to receive the boot punishment.

It's hard to balance "dedication" & "# of good games". I dont disagree with your preference, but I just like 3 days booting more, as a requirement for dedication

Edited 11/24/2013 07:31:32

I think Unreality nailed it.

If you know your teammates style, then you should be able to do your part without the long team discussions and taking 3 days to sort out a plan for each move and if you do need that time, then make it.

Checking games and then giving some general tips on the team chat in the beginning is helpful, but really it's about responding and adapting and, as Unreality said a couple times, dedication. The top on the ladder are the best players/the most dedicated.

If it's too much for a player, then perhaps they should cut back on the number of multiday games they're playing. I know, tough love hurts, but sometimes that's how the hand is dealt.

Neither of these arguments convince me because you could just as well use them to argue for a 2 day boot.

Why should it be 3 days? Three days has shown itself to be too little time for lots of players. Telling them that it is their fault and they should make more time helps noone.

@durty piggy, your argument also doesnt allow us to choose a reasonable amount of time for the boot. the thing is, if you decide to dicuss the moves as soon as the turn starts 3 days are more than enough

the balance adjustment is hard to do. my arguments are not for convincing you. my arguments are for covering the other factors that you havent covered.

someone likes 2 day, someone likes 3 day, or more. Each person can have his own preference. You are free to voice out yours. At the end its all about the Votes.

i believe if 80% 2v2 players agreed with ur settings, then Warlight will change.

You voted your vote. I posted to vote mine, although I dont mind using your setting too :)

Edited 11/24/2013 12:07:58

I think unless fizzer wanted it to change it wouldnt change, and that is no bad thing. I was hoping to change his mind, and repetition might be my best bet.

Well I think you needa change 80% (or the majority) of the 2v2 ladder players to have them change Fizzer's mind.

That means, I dont need to convince you, but you need to convince me and other players :)

It seems a vast majority of ladder players dont care enough about anything to make an effort to change it, and the few taht are knowlegable and vocal agree with me. Do you play much 2v2 ladder? if people getting booted all over the place doesnt get a reaction out of you then nothing will. that is literally the only thing that the boot timer does.

Edited 11/24/2013 13:09:43

there arent all those many persons getting booted, and if they get booted is ebcause they dont acre all that much either, otherwise they would chaneg their way of playing

When people getting booted all over the place, I will suggest extending the boot time. It's not all over the place, yet.

It's not either "no one is being booted", or "people getting booted all over the place". It's not a 1 or 0 situation, dont exaggerate too much.

How to determine the threshold? For me I will say that, if even dedicated teams are being booted, then yes please extend.

Right now I don't see how a dedicated team can't come up with a decision within 3 days. Again this is just my preference, and again I dont disagree with your setting. You just need the majority to support your idea, and more reasons for them help to change their mind.

My 'dedication' reason is still a strong reason for me, and I will listen if you have a stronger reason, which you still haven't provided yet.

Edited 11/24/2013 13:18:04

and the few taht are knowlegable and vocal agree with me.

I only see your teammate gui agreeing with you in http://warlight.net/Forum/Thread?ThreadID=13327 , and that he means you aren't very cooperative so 3 days are not enough, :) I know he's kidding only but you need more to agree with you.

I do agree longer boot time provides more quality games

and I think 3 days boot time requires more dedication than longer boot time.

Both are fine for me, and I prefer 3 days boot time a bit more.

Edited 11/24/2013 13:25:28

"How to determine the threshold? For me I will say that, if even dedicated teams are being booted, then yes please extend."

Define dedicated teams. Me adn gui, Timi and ultimimaratio, schmidt and his teammate whos name escapes me right now, have all been booted in the last month or 2 these are not people known for fucking around.

There are a loooot of people getting booted, more than the 1v1 ladder, and because there are twice as many people per game more than 3 times as many games are being decided based on who gets booted. It is not 1/10 but more than 1/100.

Pinky people are getting booted because they care, and dont just want to smash out any old moves. You think timi just didnt give a shit? Didnt mind ruining his chance at getting first place? Give me a break.

I think the only reasonable solution is a uservoice.

If they are really dedicated, they will try for every means to discuss the things, they will well organize their time, and lastly, they will share their password just in case emergency things hit the life.

Skilful hardcore players != well organized.

I'm not saying they are fucking around. They just haven't formed a good organized team.

Team games are about team work and communication. You can't communicate a result, then shouldn't you put more time or organize the discussion schedule better?

I'm not sure whether you really formed your own clan with your own alt playing team games as single person.

Anyway do you mind to tell me how you schedule the discussion and do you think you have tried your best to manage the communication time and still can't beat the 3 days booting time?

I'm not as skillful as timi, I think timi gives a shit, and a less skillful player like me do give a shit too, there's no difference, but I will try every means to ensure my team comes up with a move, and I will share my pass to my teammate. You wont make it to this level? That's ok.

Edited 11/24/2013 14:01:58

So far my team doesnt need to use each other password yet. We shared but we dont need this "last defence".

I am a lesser player, I am not as skillful as you guys, but pls dont look down on our communication content.

I research a lot, analyze a lot and write a lot to discuss with Dom365. We argue, we debate, and we tried hard. We dont beat the dreuj & brisk team just by luck. We have long conversations and analysis to predict their moves and counter them.

We are now battling the rank 1 gnuffone team and we spent a lot of time discuss and devise plans to beat them.

What I want to say is, a lesser team could have large volume of discussion content. And if a lesser skilled team want to beat former rank 1 team, they need to put even much more efforts in communication.

My team can make it, i dont see how others cant, yet.

It's not 1 or 0, there is no perfect boot time easily identified. But 3 days boot time is well enough for me

If you made an uservoice and vote for 4 days, I can support you and put my vote. 4 days setting is fine for me but I actually prefer 3 days

Edited 11/24/2013 14:35:58

This is why I love this guy! <3


A simple "no, Piggy. As with most of your threads, you're in the minority. Shh" would have sufficed, but Unreality loves a good essay!


I agree with him, FWIW - we spend a long time discussing things, both on Warlight chat and on Skype - we've stayed up to stupid hours or set alarms to get up super early to counter-act our differing time zones, and we've worked fairly well thus far. Finishing off Jupiter/Burrito, which we should do soon, will lift our rank, and if we beat Gnuffone/Beelz (still a big IF, it's no more than 50/50 atm), we could even top the pile.


And if we can have a stab at topping the pile, when we are two average/good players, who live in vastly different time-zones, then I think it shows that 3 days is adequate.

Its against WL rules to give out your password, so im not interested in being told that is a basic expectation not just of me but all players if we want a balanced 2v2 ladder.

Dom that is some serious dedication, again i understand it works for you, but cant you people see that if a 3 day boot *requires* that level of dedication then it suggests the boot timer is too short?

You and Gui are in very similar time-zones - if 3 days is not enough for you to discuss, then I don't know how long you expect..

Skilful hardcore players != well organized.

either you dont know how to say "do not have to be" or you think that "skilful hardcore players=well organized", the second case resulting in you being very mistaken.

Also most people cannot be bothered to wake up very early in the morning or too late at night only for the 2v2 ladder, especially since it isn't that important anyway. Most people, if they want to speak, will just put all their ideas or questions onto chat and wait for team-mate to come online and answer them all at once. if you both come online often enough then 3 days is usually enough, but sometimes you cannot come online cos of an unexpected late night out or broken computer or internet or whatever, and then you get players booted.

Could I lastly ask what difference would extending the boot time apart from giving players extra time to stop these annoying free wins? All you guys have been doing is addressing the fact that 3 days should be long enough for most people, however please say why 4 days is in any way worse than 3.