The wolves aren't willing to take an immigrant. Goddam yogurt goons are going to take over the world! In a few years, we all will have to put -gorod suffix in our names!!!

"An immigrant wants better life."

Everyone wants a better life. Trying to fulfill that is not a crime. What it is, is admirable.

Unless you live in Africa you either are an immigrant, or descended from Immigrants, to look down upon modern Immigrants and act as if you're better than them because your family emigrated before theirs is pure fucking lunacy.

"but you can't persecute someone for having an opinion and expressing it"

No. You absolutely can, and should persecute bigotry.

You're basically suggesting that if I like molesting children and posting daily reports of it on the internet that none o the readers should say anything negative about my actions.

Edited 8/23/2016 13:30:37

Look,if they have ID and want to go to Germany to work,they're welcome. But if they don't have an ID and want to go to Germany just to take money for nothing,they should just stay in there country,whatever it is!

MasterOfWarZone, there is a difference between having a political opinion and committing rape. Having opinions is ok, molesting children is not ok. Understand the difference?

MasterOfShitZone, you should really stop commenting on this thread. I already understood you're supporting the terrorists.

Okay, personally, I don't like to take a stand on an issue of morality, rightness, and such, because a lot of that are based on opinions and opinions are inherently subjective. But, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. As someone who lives in a country with a fairly limited freedom of expression, or at least a country where there exists an atmosphere of fear surrounding free expression, I've seen what happens when people don't openly discuss important but contentious issues. It engenders misunderstanding and prejudice, and both of those are huge obstructions to solving any kind of social problem.

Ultimately, though, a lot of what people take offense to first is not an idea itself, but the way it is conveyed. I wasn't there to personally witness the incident which led to this thread being created, but from what I understand Bayern used a fair amount of slurs and offensive language in expressing his opinion. I'm not here to say whether the use of such language is inherently right or wrong, but it's a fact that, most of the time, if you use it you will turn people away from your argument and your stand. In the worst case scenario, you could obscure your point completely. It also makes you seem more immature, which is bad if you want to convince people to agree with you. I didn't really understand exactly what his point was until francisco cleared it up for me, which should be an indication of how much disagreeable language can mar what you're trying to say.

TL;DR, having an opinion is fine. But if you want people to agree with you, or if you want them to at least understand your point of view even if they don't agree, using moderated and unoffensive language is key. And never lose your cool.

The incident that caused this thread to be created is that I got kicked because of one comment.

While one comment !CAN NOT! change relationships!

Edited 8/23/2016 14:37:40

Well, I'm no master of relationships, but kicking you out is a major decision. It's an indication of how offended they were by what you said. The worst kind of comments can ruin relationships, even if that comment is short or made in the heat of the moment.

From what I read on the first page of this thread, it's a matter of how you hold yourself and the image you convey. And I can guarantee you that no one will be able to call you racist or immature if you stay calm and cool, use moderated language, and back up every point you make with cold, hard logic and/or evidence.

"MasterOfWarZone, there is a difference between having a political opinion and committing rape. Having opinions is ok, molesting children is not ok. Understand the difference?"

No, there really isn't a difference when enforcing your political views ruins peoples lives as much as rape does.

His comments are hate speech.

Edited 8/23/2016 14:46:48

The usurper, I just said: „Yes I'm a racist because all the monkeys coming to europe. If they're from Africa or Syria, they must stay in there!!!“

In which, „Yes I'm a racist“ means I hate the ones that come to Europe and want money for doing nothing or the ones that come to Europe and make attacks, or the ones that pass the borders without an ID. Also, as I made some things for FCC, this is another reason for NOT-KICKING!

I don't know, MasterOfWarZone, how can't you understand that they come here and ruin THE REAL people lives!

Edited 8/23/2016 14:53:46

Yes. But these are not humans. You must stay in the country in which you're born unless there's a really obvious reason to go out.

There's not "Real" people. Just people. You're all equal. This isn't hard to understand.

And no, people move countries as they please: For work, for education, to experience new things, etc.

You don't decide the "right" reason to emigrate.

Your family came from Africa, all humanity came from Africa. Your family emigrated, just like the people you're attempting to refer to as sub-human right now.

They don't move to work! That is A problem! If they came in Germany, with IDs, and started going to work, they would've deserved the money they get! Everyone who has a real ID and wants to go somewhere to work is welcome! Assume they came to USA. What would you do? You would say: „Come here, take my home. You came here, so we should give you everything.“ Or you would start to swear at them?! Be honest at least once!

Humans are not equal.
+1. Congratulations, you finally said something right! Humans that WORK are equal. Humans that DON'T WORK are equal, but less than humans that WORK. Humans that DON'T work but WANT money are equal, but even less than humans that DON'T WORK. Humans that make attacks are equal. And they're equal to insane, crazy, mad, and some more words too.

Most immigrants are not looking for a handout. They're looking for somewhere better to live, work, raise their families, contribute to society, etc.

(in reference to your post at 22:52:)

Okay, from what I can see there are two things that have the potential to offend in your statement:

1. "monkeys": If I understand correctly, and also as someone mentioned earlier, this is a slur (and a slur based on race, I think, correct me if I'm wrong). A slur is offensive in itself, but it also generalises everyone from a particular race. It leaves no room for individual circumstances. What if the 'monkeys' would die if they stay in Africa or Syria? What if they need to immigrate to Europe to save themselves and their family? Your statement comes off as absolute and doesn't appear to consider the plight and the trauma that drove these refugees to leave their countries in the first place.

2. "If they're from... stay in there!": This is also another generalising statement, which condemns everyone from a certain group without consideration of individual circumstances.

Overall, your statement also fails to substantiate itself. Why is it a bad thing that they are coming to Europe? I understand that you explained this later, but as a standalone your statement can arouse indignation fairly easily.

Here's how I would have said it (not necessarily the optimum, but you probably get the idea):

"While I don't think it's a bad thing that these refugees are fleeing the chaos in their country, I believe this large-scale migration poses many problems to the countries they flock to. The sheer number of refugees put a strain on national social budgets, and the open borders between EU countries make it impossible to keep track of refugee travel once they enter Europe, making anti-terrorism protection much harder. *Also, in my opinion, many of them come with a sense of entitlement and expect to be supported financially*, or take up domestic jobs and deprive local people of much-needed employment."

*this point is the hardest to substantiate because it's difficult to get evidence for it

Overall, the objective is to point fingers less and concentrate more on constructive criticism. Yes, we all agree that terrorism is horrible and terrorists are horrible people; but not every African or Syrian is a terrorist, and just saying that terrorists are horrible people doesn't really change anything (worst case scenario, you're misunderstood for a racist). More importantly, what policies lead to increased risks of terrorism? What other problems occur as a result of these policies? And often it helps to acknowledge that any decision, regardless of how poorly misguided it is, often has its foundation in practical concerns. Obviously Europe isn't opening it's borders to refugees for no reason whatsoever. Acknowledging that they have their reasons for doing what they did is another step to making you seem more mature and your arguments considered.

(sorry everything is so long, I tend to write a lot)

If they don't have an ID they shouldn't be able to pass any border different from Shengen.

*this point is the hardest to substantiate because it's difficult to get evidence for it
Except that they can be seen on any street, I guess?


Now should I say my thing for about 100th time? Answer: Yes.

Those „refugees“ can be divided on three groups.
1. Refugees - The ones that stay in the camps EU have made for them.
2. Immigrants - All the people who go to Germany and don't do anything there except of begging.
3. Terrorists - Not wanting to say it, to not make them attack again.

Total for all groups: They can be let to pass the borders, but with someone to lead them to the nearest camp AND LOCK THEM THERE.

You are embarrassing yourself.

Looks like you've got the conversation wrong, this one is not the talking-to-yourself one.

Bayern Munchern is the Best , I have one thing, and one thing only, to say to you, as, from my standpoint, The Usurper is hitting the nail on the head here.

You need to think! And you need to think rationally and hard. I know that this is difficult for a 12 year old, emotionally charged, mind. Your brain is still developing, and quite a bit has yet to be figured out up there.

However, I want you to take away something about how ideas are conveyed from this thread. I have tried telling you to this numerous times, but your emotionally charged mind had caused you to try to personally attack me instead.

For one moment, just put away your emotions.

Take a deep breath.

Once.

Twice.

A third time.

Still feeling emotional? Repeat the steps above.

Now that you are calm, read this statement:

What your opinion is not necessarily bad. Its the way you are conveying it. Its just as The Usurper has stated. You need to realize that when you call someone, anyone "A Monkey", its a racial slur that puts down over a billion people. When you call yourself racist, it means the WHOLE race, and not just those coming to your country. The way you state your opinion makes us think that you mean that everyone who is a refugee is a terrorist. I know you say that it isn't true, and I believe you. However, you have to think about the way you weave words so the initial impression is not "every immigrant is a terrorist". Some people are able to decipher that this is ultimately what you meant, however, everyone has the same first impression on your argument, which thence kills it. Look at the way francisco0002 words his argument. You don't see people getting angry at him, do you? He worded it correctly and maturely, making his case viable and to the point. This is what you need to do. You need to think of a way to argue your point in a manner that wont offend. If you can do this, the warlight community will have more respect for you, and a proper debate can ensue.

Personal attacks and racial slurs are NOT part of a proper debate, and are highly offensive.

If you cannot understand what this paragraph is trying to convey, or cannot get over your emotions to properly understand what is written here, you should not even think about trying to argue, as you will just cause more strife for yourself and the people around you. What I say here is not just applicable to warlight, it is applicable to the Real World. If you cannot convey an argument in a non-offensive manner, using evidence and not attacks, using facts and not racial slurs, the people in the real world will also come to dislike you.

...