then by that means, Christianity is also a cult. Shots fired.

Also Christianity and Islam do have same roots, Von Jewburg have beaten me to it.

No they don't

Also worth noting two copies of Old Testament scripture have been found before Jesus:

The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Ketef Hinnom.

The Dead Sea Scroll has an estimated creation between 150 BC and 70 AD. The Ketef Hinnom has been estimated to be made from 750-650 BC.

Then what are said verses in the New Testament, referencing the Old Testament and the tenets of Judaism?

Edited 6/23/2016 17:34:31

thanks JIDF but the Jews worship satan.

Islam's the worst. Mostly because the majority of it's followers still think beheading gays and shooting cartoonists is fine.

No, actually, almost none do. While most Muslims believe being gay is morally wrong, and that drawing Mohamet in a bad likeness is also morally wrong, much fewer believe in death penalty for you.

Christians today don't walk into a town and start killing all those who aren't "saved".

Oh, they do, but mainly in Africa and India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

There's plenty of lines in the Qur'an about killing infidels unless they give you money

Killing those that break some laws, yes. You can twist anything to make it like yours. This is why I'm against all dogmatisms - not just Christianity and Islaam and Judaism, but also godlessness, sometimes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzYXurzNoE4

There's clear lines in the Holy Writ that are cult-like, telling you to cut relations with those who disagree with you, and you getting a new "father", and it also says that you should never oppose your government, for it is God's destiny to make the government.

Can I add my input?

Majority of Muslims aren't terrorist BUT why do the majority not denounce, hate, hold rallies etc to stop their Muslim extremists? I think even if they don't actually get involved in the terrorizing, they support them.

“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”


― Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Edited 6/23/2016 18:36:56

Oh, they do, but mainly in Africa and India.

The only real example of a christian terrorist group on the scale of modern islamic terrorism is the ku klux klan, which was pretty bad. To put this into context though, they killed around 3400 Africa americans in 86 years, which honestly isn't that much more than the death tolls of single instances of islamic terrorism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura;

Again, they managed to kill 400 people so far, which doesn't even come close to the scale of islamic terrorism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

Kataeb is a Secular party (albeit that is predominantly composed of maronite christians). They are a secular party with secular motivations for their terrorism, not one with religious motivations (such as islamic terrorists).

There's clear lines in the Holy Writ that are cult-like, telling you to cut relations with those who disagree with you,

I can't think of the particular verse right now to quote, but I believe you're referencing a verse that says something like "Don't let false teachers enter your house and eat with you". This doesn't apply to most people, as they aren't actually "teaching" anything. It refers to members of other christian denominations who are openly proselytizing things that are false and calling it christianity. These are the people you're supposed to lock out of your house.

and you getting a new "father"

Calling God a "Father" is just a metaphorical term to help us understand his role in our lives. In truth God's true nature is not understandable to humans, so we can only speak about him in metaphors and comparisons. This doesn't imply that you are getting a "New father", it's just a manner of speaking to help you understand an incomprehensible thing (God's nature) in the best way you can.

and it also says that you should never oppose your government, for it is God's destiny to make the government.

Because political stability is something to be despised I suppose.

(No seriously, how is this a bad thing? The positive difference between african countries which frequently rebel against their governments and western countries which basically never do is very noticeable.)

The only real example of a christian terrorist group on the scale of modern islamic terrorism

Yes, Christians generally live in better off sites and so are more "moderate", however - to say "Christians today don't walk into a town and start killing all those who aren't "saved"." is wrong.

I can't think of the particular verse right now to quote, but I believe you're referencing a verse that says something like "Don't let false teachers enter your house and eat with you".

The line is:

"I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work." - 2 John 7-11.

It says to tell folk who are not Christian, or does not follow the teachings of Jesus, are deceivers and antichrist; refusing a talk with them; more than just bigotry: it's isolation.

Romans 16:17 "I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." (ditto)

Deuteronomy 7:1-5 "When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations – the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you – and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no deal with them, and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. This is what you are to do to them: break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire." (encouraging violence against nonChristians, forbidding to talk or even think about their thoughts).

Calling God a "Father" is just a metaphorical term to help us understand his role in our lives.

That's what he is now, but back when Jesus was alive, Jesus was the "Father".

Because political stability is something to be despised I suppose.

You should be able to speak out against your government.

"I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work." - 2 John 7-11.

It says to tell folk who are not Christian, or does not follow the teachings of Jesus, are deceivers and antichrist; refusing a talk with them; more than just bigotry: it's isolation.

That's the verse, thanks. The verse doesn't mention just generally anyone who doesn't believe, it mentions "Deceivers who don't acknowledge that jesus christ is come in the flesh who have gone out into the world". "Gone out into the world" implies, as I said, proselytism. The line about "Come In the flesh" isn't actually a condemnation against non christians, but against christians who deny that christ was ever actually a human and is instead just a spirit.

This is actually a huge theological problem in christianity since only a human sacrifice can pay for the sins of humans, thus the condemnation of "They're antichrist, don't welcome them or let them into your house".

(Here's a great video if you'd like to learn more about the historical context for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ZZeCDGHJE)

Romans 16:17 "I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." (ditto)

Again, this is about false christian doctrines. Claiming otherwise is ignoring the fact that in so many other places christians are actually encouraged to talk to non-christians, Probably the most famous example being Matthew 28:19-20:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

---

That's what he is now, but back when Jesus was alive, Jesus was the "Father".

I'm not sure what you're meaning to imply here really, but there are passages in the bible which claim that God never changes.

You should be able to speak out against your government.

In modern democratic governments this does not conflict with being obedient to your government.

Edited 6/23/2016 23:22:45

Also Imperator, do you agree that the New Testament and Quran were created with acknowledging and believing in the Old Testament?

thanks JIDF, the Jews are so responsible for Christianity. Much predecessor such grateful.

O-oh wait, w-whats this....''Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.''

OY VEY such virulent anti Semitism! what kind of neo Nazi would say these things! Oh wait that was Jesus.

''I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan''

NAZI! NAZI! OY VEY MUH 6 MILLION! MUH 20 MILLION! OY GEVALT! THE BIBLE IS SO ANTI SEMITIC!

Also Imperator, do you agree that the New Testament and Quran were created with acknowledging and believing in the Old Testament?

Yes, they most definitely were; In fact, that's what early christians (before the new testament was written/canonized) used as their scriptures. As far as I can tell the only reason less importance is placed on the old testament is that there were purposeful attempts to distance christianity and judaism to make the religion more acceptable to the gentiles, one example being dropping mandatory circumcision.


In all honesty the Quran was probably more influenced by christian scriptures than jewish ones, as I mentioned it shares a lot of similarities in it's view of Jesus. That's just my take though, I only have a very basic knowledge of the quran.

Not te Bible of Cheesus!

It sez here in Warnings 9:11,

Do not have fear of the Hebrews, for they are like elephants. If you do not bother them, they shall not harm you. Let them be content with their worldly goods, for Cheesus disapproves of harming the heretics. Cheesus does that on his own.
But be fearful of those from the far south, for they cannot be trusted. They live in lands no human can, and are short. They are in vast numbers, but they do not know as much. These are the peoples Cheesus warns you of, for Cheesus is wise and knowing.

I believe these said people are often called "Batang Yagit" by the Indigenous Sentient Trash inhabiting a group of islands north of the Dutch East Indies, east of French Indochina, and south of Japanese Formosa.