Exact same goes for you. Your believe is just as much psuedo-science. As you can`t prove that there isn`t a civilization more advanced than us in the universe.

No, it isn't. I've looked all over for the aliens that will invalidate my belief, and I haven't found any.

Our best information doesn`t reach far compared to how big our universe is. Even if we know everything about our local group (which we don`t by far), we would still only know about 0.00000000001% of the universe. Which is cool and all, but in most science fields, if you have only studied 0.00000000001% of all possibilities it isn`t really usefull information. Our best information is very limited. It is not sufficient enough to scientifically tell us that we are the most advanced civilization.

Yes, there is a lot of universe to study, but based on our best information there are no aliens. The fact that there is a possibility that our current information is wrong is a very poor basis for an opinion.

Again, I'm not denying that there is a possibility that there are aliens. However, there is also a possibility that there aren't. And based on the fact that the only proof in favor of them existing is that "they could be intentionally hiding from us", the latter is much more likely.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:08:52

And based on the fact that the only proof in favor of them existing is that "they could be intentionally hiding from us",

So lets ignore this part of my post then? "Depends on where this civilation is and how long it excists. It could be more advanced, but still only excist for a little bit longer than humans. We are far from reaching other stars. If this advanced lifeform lives a couple of 1000 stars away it will takes some times to get here. But it could already have takes over 800 of those stars and their planetary systems without us noticing. If an advanced lifeform has formed outside of our local group, they won`t ever be able to reach us, no matter how advanced they are."

So you say our information is pointing into the direction of there being no other alien life? The problem with almost all information we have of the universe is that it isn`t certain. We have no information on whether or not advanced lifeforms live somewhere else in the universe. We only know there aren`t other advanced lifeforms in this solar system. I don`t know what information you have that says there aren`t more advanced lifeforms in the rest of the universe.

We can also look at the "information" we already have:
-There are lifeforms travelling across the universe using comets.
-Under the right conditions these lifeforms can survive on a planet.
-There are more than an (estimated) nonillian planets in the universe.
-If a lifeform lives long enough under the right conditions, it can develop into a more complex lifeform.

This information tells me that there is a big chance of there being another planet with an advanced lifeform in the universe.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:25:25

So lets ignore this part of my post then? "Depends on where this civilation is and how long it excists. It could be more advanced, but still only excist for a little bit longer than humans. We are far from reaching other stars. If this advanced lifeform lives a couple of 1000 stars away it will takes some times to get here. But it could already have takes over 800 of those stars and their planetary systems without us noticing. If an advanced lifeform has formed outside of our local group, they won`t ever be able to reach us, no matter how advanced they are."

The problem with this is that it's based on the assumption that advanced civilizations are unable to produce more and more advanced technology. Sure, based on our current understanding it's impossible to travel outside our local group and conquer star systems quickly, but there is no reason to believe that this problem can't be overcome with more advanced technology, technology that we can't even comprehend today. After all, people historically believed that it would be impossible to even fly across the atlantic, which turned out to be very wrong; We just needed better technology.

We can also look at the "information" we already have:
-There are lifeforms travelling across the universe using comets.
-Under the right conditions these lifeforms can survive on a planet.
-There are more than an (estimated) nonillian planets in the universe.
-If a lifeform lives long enough under the right conditions, it can develop into a more complex lifeform.

This information tells me that there is a big chance of there being another planet with an advanced lifeform in the universe.

Unless I'm mistaken, panspermia is regarded as an unconfirmed theory as of now, another one of these pseudo-scienctific justifications for how aliens are inevitable.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:34:36

The problem with this is that it's based on the assumption that advanced civilizations are unable to produce more and more advanced technology. Sure, based on our current understanding it's impossible to travel outside our local group and conquer star systems quickly, but there is no reason to believe that this problem can't be overcome with more advanced technology, technology that we can't even comprehend today. After all, people historically believed that it would be impossible to even fly across the atlantic, which turned out to be very wrong; We just needed better technology.

So based on our information right now it is impossible to travel outside our local group. That doesn`t mean a more advanced lifeform can`t. According to you our information tells us there are no advanced lifeforms in the universe and this information (which is a lot less certain) is right for sure?

panspermia is regarded as an unconfirmed theory as of now

We know so little of the universe that almost everything is an unconfirmed theory.

another one of these pseudo-scienctific justifications for how aliens are inevitable.

Yet to see an non pseudo-scientific justification for how there isn`t any lifeform more advanced than humankind.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:41:14

Well if it's unconfirmed, it's unconfirmed, don't try to use it as an argument for the existence of aliens.

Yet to see an non pseudo-scientific justification for how there isn`t any lifeform more advanced than humankind.

I've looked literally everywhere for aliens, I really have. I haven't found any evidence to counter my belief other than "There is a possibility that our current information is wrong", which as I've said is a very poor piece of evidence at best.

So based on our information right now it is impossible to travel outside our local group. That doesn`t mean a more advanced lifeform can`t. According to you our information tells us there are no advanced lifeforms in the universe and this information (which is a lot less certain) is right for sure?

I actually have reason to believe that technology will advance and make "impossible" things happen, which is that this is what has always happened historically.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:45:20

There is a possibility that our current information is wrong

I already told you that our information isn`t perse wrong, but it is insufficient to tell anything about the entire universe. We do not have any information about the entire universe. Our current information is that there are no other advanced lifeforms in our solar system, which isn`t wrong. We have no other information about lifeforms in the universe.

I actually have reason to believe that technology will advance and make "impossible" things happen, which is that this is always what has happened historically.

I actually have reason to believe that there are more advanced lifeforms in the universe. Also "it happened before in history" is a very poor piece of evidence at best.

I actually have reason to believe that there are more advanced lifeforms in the universe. Also "it happened before in history" is a very poor piece of evidence at best.

No it isn't. If technology has always gotten better at a consistent rate for a while, the only logical assumption is that it's going to keep getting better; Nobody is going back to horse drawn carriages at this point, and to be honest nobody really wants to.

If you do have reasons to believe this, you haven't shared them with me. What are they?

I already told you that our information isn`t perse wrong, but it is insufficient to tell anything about the entire universe. We do not have any information about the entire universe. Our current information is that there are no other advanced lifeforms in our solar system, which isn`t wrong. We have no other information about lifeforms in the universe.

In that case it's an even worse basis for a belief; We don't have any information whatsoever on this, so I'm going to assume that whatever I want is true.

Edited 5/14/2016 15:54:49

If you do have reason to believe this, you haven't shared them with me

There being over a nonillian planets in the universe and about 12 billion years for lifeforms to develop. Our species has only been around for less than 0,5 Ma. The chances of there being another planet that holds live and this liveform being more developed than humankind is quite big.

If technology has always gotten better at a consistent rate for a while, the only logical assumption is that it's going to keep getting better

It is the logical assumpion, but that isn`t a scientific argument (at least it isn`t if you do not think there isn`t any other advanced lifeform).

It`s going to keep getting better? Probably. Does that mean there are no limits to technology? No. There probably are limits, and we and any other lifeform can`t surpass that limit.

There being over a nonillian planets in the universe and about 12 billion years for lifeforms to develop. Our species has only been around for less than 0,5 Ma. The chances of there being another planet that holds live and this liveform being more developed than humankind is quite big.

That's not a reason, it's psuedo-science. As I've already pointed out, pseudo-science proves, while science disproves.

Does that mean there are no limits to technology? No.

I disagree. Until we actually reach this limit or find some way to hypothesize it, there's absolutely no reason to believe that it exists.

Edited 5/14/2016 16:09:59

Until we actually reach this limit or find some way to hypothesize it, there's absolutely no reason to believe that it exists

We have hypothesized it, thats exactly why we think nobody can ever leave their local group.

That's not a reason, it's psuedo-science.

And you have yet to give me a good reason why it isn`t possible for a more advanced lifeform to exist. Because sorry to say this, but I've looked literally everywhere for aliens, I really have. I haven't found any evidence to counter my belief is not a correct reason either. That doesn`t proof you are right, it just proof that there is no proof you are wrong.

Strange how you cannot close your discussion by saying: "We do not know. Nice talking to you."

I`ve already said we don`t know. He just keeps on saying my reasoning is wrong and then continues to reason in the same way. Thats what I`m trying to make him aware of.

And you have yet to give me a good reason why it isn`t possible for a more advanced lifeform to exist. Because sorry to say this, but I've looked literally everywhere for aliens, I really have. I haven't found any evidence to counter my belief is not a correct reason either. That doesn`t proof you are right, it just proof that there is no proof you are wrong.

Yes, it is a perfectly valid justification. If your theory is based on a solid reason, say that we have absolutely no evidence for the existence of aliens, and you literally cannot disprove your theory in any way, then there's a very good chance that it is true.

Whereas if your belief is based on a remote possibility that something exists in a part of the universe that even you admit we literally have no information on, and it is easily disprovable.. Well, The former is obviously a better belief to hold.

We have hypothesized it, thats exactly why we think nobody can ever leave their local group.

Until this hypothesis is tested, which it isn't yet, we'll just have to see. However as of now this isn't an official limit of technology, and it's definitely not a universally held idea.

I`ve already said we don`t know. He just keeps on saying my reasoning is wrong and then continues to reason in the same way. Thats what I`m trying to make him aware of.

I've already acknowledged that we don't know as well, and In fact I've also acknowledged that there is a possibility that you are right. However, your reasoning is less valuable than mine, since it's based on the possibility that something may exist in a part of the universe that we have literally no information about.

To put it more simply, it's not that "we know that aliens exist" or that "we know that aliens don't exist", or even that "we don't know if they exist". The current state of affairs is that "we don't know of any that exist, and there is a possibility that there are some that we don't know about which do exist".

Edited 5/14/2016 16:37:36

If your theory is based on a solid reason, say that we have absolutely no evidence for the existence of aliens, and you literally cannot disprove your theory in any way, then there's a very good chance that it is true.

Problem is that your theory isn`t based on a solid reason.
"We have never met an alien civilization, so there aren`t any in the universe" Says the human who has discovered less than 0.0000000000000000001% of the universe.

Problem is that your theory isn`t based on a solid reason.
"We have never met an alien civilization, so there aren`t any in the universe" Says the human who has discovered less than 0.0000000000000000001% of the universe.

It's a much more solid reasoning than "We haven't gathered any information on this part of the universe, so therefore this alien I think exists must exist in that part of the universe".

The simple fact is, there is a part of the universe that we know does not have aliens in it, and there is absolutely no part that we know does have aliens in it. Therefore, saying "I believe that there are no aliens" is much more correct than "I believe that there are aliens", since at least a small part of the universe has been verified as alien-free, whereas absolutely no part of it has been verified as having aliens in it.

We haven't gathered any information on this part of the universe, so therefore this alien I think exists must exist in that part of the universe".

Well, it can`t be in the other part of the universe can it now. I already explained, there are enough possibilities for a scenario like earth, so it is likely that it will happen (even if it happens only once every sixtillionth time, then there would still be a lot of aliens. Its simple calculation.)

If you think that that isn`t logical thinking then that is your problem not mine. It would seem that we would never come to an agreement then. So lets just agree to disagree.

Edited 5/14/2016 17:23:55

When you're speculating about possibilities, as we are here, you can't really say anything for certain. You're technically just saying that there is a possibility that you're right, not actually claiming to be right. That being said, We are technically both correct in that there is a possibility that there are aliens, and that there is also a possibility that there are no aliens.

So, Let's not agree to disagree, but rather acknowledge that both of us are actually correct.

Sure, sounds good as well ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhhvQGsMEc

If there really are aliens that are more technologically advanced than us, then to be honest I really have to rethink my philosophy.

The point is, just if we can build Shanghai, develop medicines, and illnesses to kill all, should we kill all who aren't us, just since we're the only ones who can? This is what you're grounding. Rethinking your philosophy just seems like you're going to beg not to be eaten if you can be eaten, but if you are at the top of the food chain, you're not going to listen to anyone's beggings.

In a way I am very opposed to the idea of aliens, as it's very problematic from a theological standpoint.

I mean, the Book never says that there're no aliens. In truth, there are some who believe that aliens came to us many years ago, and brought us various faiths and characterisms of Gods. Angels and folk who live in heaven (the sky) are various aliens.

Anyhow, but I don't see why it would be problematic.

I'd argue that if aliens more intelligent than humans are found, this will be a very strong argument against christianity.

Well, so would evolution, the Big Bang, and many other scientific findings since the Book was written.