i was going as always to read all the post but when i saw the post about america trying to play the world policeman i couldnt resist to go to the end

Mr police officer i will give you a day and a year 21 April 1967
country=Greece
The american sponsored Junta(dictatorship) takes over Greece cause Greek and Cyprus goverment was taking steps away from USA (before you try to say anything be aware that Clinton asked sorry for the American involvement in Greece and he publicly accepted that USA helped the dictator)
For 7 years we had no democracy
Cause of this Turkey found an excuse and we lost half of Cyprus by the way it was admited by the USA that they knew about the turkish invasion in the island of Cyprus but they didnt cared this was a gift to turkey i presume.

After that you started meddling more with the matters of middle east but for me the worst thing you ve done was in iran mr police officer of the world

You manage to change history by removing the president of iran who was trying to take power from the church and and create a new modernized iran and you put a dictator in hes place and guess what happened? open the TV and look at the iran you made cause this iran is USA creation


Stop meddling in our problems you dont have an idea what middle east means

Edited 2/7/2016 08:51:09

Dr. Love I 100% agree with you , I never heard of this interference in Greek affairs, and this is very sad that because of this, your country suffered 7 years of dictatorship and lost some parts of territories for no valuable reasons.

There are blatant other examples of the US wrongdoings everywhere. The example of Iran (almost forgot this) is a sad event, orchestrated by the American government, to destroy a very promising revolution under President Mossadegh in the 50s who dared defy and call in question the US and Western interests, the revolution of the 50s (that strangely the US media and movies never mentioned at all), is not the more popular Islamic revolution of 1979 (how strange... for this event you have plenty of movies depicting the evil Islamic Iranians such as Argo in 2012...) which is actually the very result of the US interference by putting a dictator (the Shah) hated by his people without even caring about the further consequences.

One of the most horrible example of American interference is the assassination of president Salvador Allende, replaced by the dictator Pinochet backed up by CIA in Chile, starting a reign of terror and killing thousands and thousands of opponents and innocent people.

The US interference particularly worsened the situation in the Middle East and South America, if the US governments did not stick out their noses there, the situation would have been far better. The irony about this, is that the troubles in these regions are directly impacting the US: South America for not being stable faces a mass migration (hence the Trump's idea of building a wall, but you know this wall would not have been necessary of instead of destabilizing South America, you would have helped them developing the right way), and the Middle East is the very territory where terrorism is threatening directly the US, and is represented by many states such as Iran as being part of the Bush's simplistic view of geopolitics: the"Axe of Evil"... You see this is the perfect definition of the boomerang effect.

To answer this thread the situation in the Middle East is the direct consequence of the US intrusion in foreign affairs, the Islamic revolution of Iran, the Talibans in Afghanistan funded by the US against the Soviets, the Pakistani extremism (Pakistan was their favorite ally against India), the situation in Egypt (Nasser was a socialist president, secular and very progressive, but all fucked up with Al Sadat the exact opposite, pro US, capitalist and Islamist), the situation in Syria and Iraq (after the US invasion).

The thing is the question is wrongly formulated: Before leaving, you should have never tried to invade the middle east in the first place, the World is better without any US interferences...

Edited 2/7/2016 11:29:22

"we will always be number 1 on the nations list that spread freedom.....and corruption "

uuhhhmm... About spreading freedom everywhere, tell me which are the nations you liberated recently? Iraq? Afghanistan? Vietnam? Somalia? Very good joke.

Eastern Europe, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and many others where America successfully tried to spread democracy?. Koala, and even France as well when we saved your white asses from the Germans......twice. I'm not going to debate you koala, your very rude and resort to personal attacks and name calling much of the time and I simply refuse to debate someone who constantly does that. I just couldn't help but reply to that last one seeing how the irony in the statement made me luagh out loud

Edited 2/7/2016 14:49:51

America did not spread democracy there conservative... In Eastern Europe the people themselves liberated their nations after the collapse of the USSR, South Korea? For 30 years a nationalistic dictatorship was in place until the 80s, and South Korea before the USSR collapsed was even poorer compared to North Korea... Turkey? They owe nothing to you, it started well before in the 20s and the Turkish republic was copied from the European and French model (see Laïcité and Laïc states here's a summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9 ) that's why this state is still secular (not for long sadly) same thing applies for Tunisia more influenced by the French model, the only successful state to have a stable regime after the Arab revolutions, Egypt? I just told you earlier how it was ruined with Al Sadat who was backed up by the US... did you read my post? Sure you don't. Saudi Arabia? oh yes a great example of democracy... I hope this was ironical...

even France as well when we saved your white asses from the Germans......twice

Who saved you from the British? thanks to whom did you achieve independence and started to become a real nation? Thanks Lafayette. Furthermore, ww1 Gosh... You were very very late, most was already done, for more than 3 years we secured the front without your help wasting millions of lives, idiot. You are insulting millions of French (including many of my own family) that were killed during this atrocious war.

Stop blinding yourself, why do you think that the only people having a Jingoistic attitude such as you are Americans? Check it by yourself, Dr Love is Greek, Ox is Scottish, I am French, Kretoma is German, Juq is Belarussian, Chuck Norris is Australian and Dutch... Do you realize that the only people blinded by this extreme nationalistic US propaganda are (some) Americans such as you Conservative?

Edited 2/7/2016 15:19:02

You, GeneralPE, Varys, Conservative, Castle Bravo, and even MGSB before he came on Warlight all think of America as this country who tries to free folk, deal justice, be the world police, spread democracy, all the things.

Its so easy to say things when you don't have to give proof. Again don't make generalizations without evidence. When have I (and quote me directly) glorified America for "freeing folk, dealing justice, being the world police, and spreading democracy". Last time I checked I'm a neo-isolationist and I am strongly against America being a world police or spreading democracy. You clearly have a penchant for saying things you don't have proof of. Please don't slander or libel me thanks.

Oh my god i could rip those arguments to shreds but i said was gonna stop talking to angry to boycott how rude he is and how he needs to start acting like an adult in these debates. I mean honestly, Ox, Japan, and others are all good, friendly debaters who can actually politely have a conversation with me without acting like a stuck up jackass.

I am strongly against America being a world police or spreading democracy. You clearly have a penchant for saying things you don't have proof of. Please don't slander or libel me thanks.

First, it's definitively not slander, second, you are being very ironic. You're against America being a "world police" and "spreading democracy" - if you think these things, you clearly are glorifying a pragmatic government that does what's best for itself.

Oh my god i could rip those arguments to shreds but i said was gonna stop talking to angry to boycott how rude he is and how he needs to start acting like an adult in these debates. I mean honestly, Ox, Japan, and others are all good, friendly debaters who can actually politely have a conversation with me without acting like a stuck up jackass.

I never got how boycotting works outside of financially boycotting something.

Edited 2/7/2016 17:24:18

Oh screw it.

" Who saved you from the British? thanks to whom did you achieve independence and started to become a real nation? Thanks Who saved you from the British? thanks to whom did you achieve independence and started to become a real nation? Thanks Lafayette. Furthermore, ww1 Gosh... You were very very late, most was already done, for more than 3 years we secured the front without your help wasting millions of lives, idiot. You are insulting millions of French (including many of my own family) that were killed during this atrocious war.Lafayette. Furthermore, ww1 Gosh... You were very very late, most was already done, for more than 3 years we secured the front without your help wasting millions of lives, idiot. You are insulting millions of French (including many of my own family) that were killed during this atrocious war. "

^

1: The American Revolution was an endless war where the outcome had to be American independence, there was no way Britain could win. The French can only credited with helping us in our victory at Yorktown, that's it. Lafayette lol really? Lafayette did not affect the war in any way, saying we have him to thank for anything is laughable. He is just a symbol of French involvement


2: we were late? we were not even supposed to be fucking there! We had no bone in that fight, so stop acting like the stuck up Frenchmen you are and acknowledge we did not have to come at all. Frenchmen died, Englishmen died, Americans died, i am not buying the ' My family was affected in the most ugly way ' card because guess what? as hard as it may be to see this but you were not the only family who had family members die for there country. In America its called patriotism, and serving your country with honor.


3: Eastern Europe tried to revolt at the height of soviet power, got there asses handed to them. American arms, tech, info, and persistance on the soviet union, which led to the soviet collapse because they killed themselves while trying to compete against America, freed eastern Europe. It did not happen by themselves, they had help from many nations but many the US.



I aint gonna answer all these charges because I have school to finish but let me say this. Angry, you were brought up in a generation that has been extremely left and anti-American. You were raised in that society, its just the way you are. I cannot change your mind on any of this nor you I but i can say this and I would bet everything I own on it, If America completely did everything you wanted and pulled out tomorrow out of world affairs your world would shatter. I truly hope that one day you look at history book of WW1 or WW2 and see pictures of dead americans, remember they died so you could have the right to sit there on your tablet or computer and type hateful mean things about there country, they died so you could sit and insult me like a child, they died so your children could have the right to do the very same. They died for every Frenchmen and Englishmen who wanted to live freely. That was not propaganda, that is how there minds worked and that is how they saw it. I will always have the satisfaction of knowing that the freedom you use to tear down America, was partly bought by American lives.

Edited 2/7/2016 17:47:03

First, it's definitively not slander, second, you are being very ironic. You're against America being a "world police" and "spreading democracy" - if you think these things, you clearly are glorifying a pragmatic government that does what's best for itself.

What is wrong with you? Do you understand the english language? How in any way am I glorifying my country. First off I am against America being a world police and spreading democracy, but that does not mean that is the position of the US government. Despite my objections, the war hawks in bot parties support the idea of the US as an imperialistic force that must solve all the problems, despite them not being in our nation's interest.

You're a hypocrite. You criticize people for thinking America should be a world police force and then in the same breadth you criticize people who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs. I've never seen such ridiculous double standards.

Guys guys stop fighting you can both be the victim can we stop now

GeneralPE, Varys, Conservative, Castle Bravo, and even MGSB before he came on Warlight all think of America as this country who tries to free folk, deal justice, be the world police, spread democracy, all the things. You may find criticisms, but you'll say that was just a "mistake" and that America tried to do the right thing. So much for being hard-pressed.

Um... I don't like the American Gov. And I don't think we should be getting involved in most of the world.

And thanks for putting me in the same sentence as politically ignorant Conservative.

1: The American Revolution was an endless war where the outcome had to be American independence, there was no way Britain could win. The French can only credited with helping us in our victory at Yorktown, that's it. Lafayette lol really? Lafayette did not affect the war in any way, saying we have him to thank for anything is laughable. He is just a symbol of French involvement

Conservative, since the Revolutionary War it is a custom to heavily downplay the French contributions and their war effort in the US, I guess you even did not know that the French efforts for the American revolution led to an indirect consequence as the heavy debts accumulated because of these heavy contributions since 1775 led to a bankruptcy, this only shows you how much we contributed on this.
The 13 colonies would never have earned their freedom without French intervention, the whole battle for American independence was essentially a proxy war between Britain and France. To the French, America was nothing but another theater in their grand blood feud against Britain. They were all about making the Englishmen eat every last available dick, and since they noticed they could use the colonists' struggle for independence as a handy feeding pen, that's exactly what they did.
France began providing arms and ammunition as early as 1776 (the war started in 1775). In early 1777, months before Saratoga, the French sent American colonists 25,000 uniforms and pairs of boots, hundreds of cannons, and thousands of muskets, all stuff that the colonists would've had a hard time surviving without, and all stuff they had no access to on their own. And that was just the tip of the iceberg: From supplies to advice to military reinforcements, France exercised all the fiscal restraint of a drunk businessman at a strip club when it came to funding the American war.
France provided a whopping 90 percent of the rebels' gunpowder. Let that sink in for a second. Without France, the entire American Revolution would have devolved into a bunch of dudes swinging their muskets as clubs within weeks.

So, when the Colonial army was fighting for dear freedom, US history books tend to conveniently forget that they did so with French money, equipment, and backup forces, while France and its other allies were busy pummeling the empire from every other side.

2: we were late? we were not even supposed to be fucking there! We had no bone in that fight, so stop acting like the stuck up Frenchmen you are and acknowledge we did not have to come at all. Frenchmen died, Englishmen died, Americans died, i am not buying the ' My family was affected in the most ugly way ' card because guess what? as hard as it may be to see this but you were not the only family who had family members die for there country. In America its called patriotism, and serving your country with honor.

Now, about WW1, the contribution of the US were really minimal compared to France, Russia or Britain. The triple entente powers alone were stopping the Germans and Austrians. They intervened very late (1917) despite the US being long term allies of France and the UK.
France in 1914 had a population of just under 40 million and an army with a mobilized strength of 1.1m. By the end of the war France had mobilized 8.6m men and lost 1.39m dead and 4.25m wounded which represents almost 70% of casualties in the total mobilized, almost 100% more dead and 150% more wounded than comparative figures for Great Britain, with a population of 45m. As for the US lost 116,708 men and only 7% as casualties of the total mobilized.
Now by blatant facts and figures I hope you see the huge difference of mobilization and the heavy tributes we paid during ww1.

3: Eastern Europe tried to revolt at the height of soviet power, got there asses handed to them. American arms, tech, info, and persistance on the soviet union, which led to the soviet collapse because they killed themselves while trying to compete against America, freed eastern Europe. It did not happen by themselves, they had help from many nations but many the US.

I would like to know your sources about these supposed "American arms, tech, info". The USSR collapsed internally, and the people eventually revolted for freedom and independence (for the Eastern European states), foreign contributions were minimal.

I aint gonna answer all these charges because I have school to finish but let me say this. Angry, you were brought up in a generation that has been extremely left and anti-American. You were raised in that society, its just the way you are.

First of all, I am not Anti-American, I am simply against American Jingoists such as you spreading their nationalist venom everywhere, tell me if you were impartial and unbiased, why are you simply ignoring other people like Dr. Love participating here?

I cannot change your mind on any of this nor you I but i can say this and I would bet everything I own on it, If America completely did everything you wanted and pulled out tomorrow out of world affairs your world would shatter.

No, I actually would congratulate the US if they just stopped interfering everywhere and stopped worsening the World's situation particularly in the Middle East. I blame the US for the bad influence on many countries in recent history: you got the example of Greece cited by Dr Love, and I also gave you many examples of other countries that had their destiny changed by the wrongdoings of Americans interfering everytime and everywhere.

I truly hope that one day you look at history book of WW1 or WW2 and see pictures of dead americans, remember they died so you could have the right to sit there on your tablet or computer and type hateful mean things about there country,

Did you ever open a history book? Furthermore I did not know that people had tablet and computers in 1918 or 1940...

they died so you could sit and insult me like a child, they died so your children could have the right to do the very same. They died for every Frenchmen and Englishmen who wanted to live freely. That was not propaganda, that is how there minds worked and that is how they saw it. I will always have the satisfaction of knowing that the freedom you use to tear down America, was partly bought by American lives.

And the French, the British, the Germans, the Chinese or the Russians also lost many people for freedom. Gosh... your extreme nationalistic ideology is so nauseating, you cannot even consider other countries' achievement and contributions.

I forgot to mention an important thing another Uk/usa intervation in the greek civil war this is a bit older but we still try to forget what happened and this war was one of the reasons that the dictatorship came later the wounds which a civil war make are always very deep imagine that this civil war happened after the WW2 in a war wich we lost around 500.000 people (most was from famine) and we speak for a country with 7million people at that time (source used wikipedia i used an international source to be more acurate to international numbers)

The conflict was orchestrated by the great powers in order to bring greece towards the allies or the ussr the allies wanted Greece badly cause of its position


A big thanks to USA for aiding Greece with Napalm B :P (really think about it a country devastated from the ww2 and after the end of war with italy first which we won ang with germany and bulgaria after which we lost a civil war comes and USA aid us by bombing whatever was standing:P)
But lets not be arrogant they had English help too:P

The war erupted in 1946
i will copy some quotes from wikipedia

Despite setbacks suffered by government forces from 1946 to 1948, increased American aid, the failure of the DSE to attract sufficient recruits and the side effects of the Tito–Stalin split eventually led to victory for the government troops. The final victory of the western-allied government forces led to Greece's membership in NATO and helped to define the ideological balance of power in the Aegean Sea for the entire Cold War. The civil war also left Greece with a vehemently anticommunist security establishment, which would lead to the establishment of the Greek military junta of 1967–74 and a legacy of political polarisation that lasted until the 1980s.


Napalm B was also used during the Greek Civil War between the Greek Army and Communist rebels. During 1949, the last year of the war, the United States increased its military aid to the Greek Government by introducing a new weapon to finish off the war: napalm B. The first napalm attack in Greece took place on the mountain of Grammos, which was the stronghold of the Communist rebels.[

Edited 2/7/2016 22:35:53

Do you have sources for any of this?

most of them are from wikipedia as i saied i already sended you via mail the sources

What is wrong with you? Do you understand the english language? How in any way am I glorifying my country. First off I am against America being a world police and spreading democracy, but that does not mean that is the position of the US government. Despite my objections, the war hawks in bot parties support the idea of the US as an imperialistic force that must solve all the problems, despite them not being in our nation's interest.

You know, this is your last warning, before I will become hostile, too. Anyhow, I may have been mistaken - so you think America has never fought or helped some war, being genuinely generous since 1900? Either way, I'm not "hard-pressed" to find folk that do think that.

You're a hypocrite. You criticize people for thinking America should be a world police force and then in the same breadth you criticize people who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs. I've never seen such ridiculous double standards.

I don't think I'm a hypocrite. Yes, I disagree with folk for thinking America should be a world police force and then in the same breadth I disagree with folk who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs. That's not hypocritic, though. I disagree with folk for thinking America should be a world police force, while I disagree with some folk who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs for their still patriotic beliefs.

Um... I don't like the American Gov. And I don't think we should be getting involved in most of the world.

Sorry - you used to.

while I disagree with some folk who think America should not get involved in other nation's affairs for their still patriotic beliefs.

Okay I'm genuinely lost here. Connect the dots. How does believing America should not get involved in other nation's affairs representative of their patriotic belief? In fact it is a sign of respect to other nations that we don't understand your history, culture, and political beliefs better than you and so we want to give you the freedom to decide your own course. This holds true as long as they are not violent or attack us in any way. Its not patriotism that leads to the belief of non-interventionism and isolationism, its the idea that the a better system of government is one in which the military and the federal government does not have so much power (which inevitably leads to the desire to conduct war and expand empires).

Edited 2/8/2016 03:52:09

Okay I'm genuinely lost here. Connect the dots. How does believing America should not get involved in other nation's affairs representative of their patriotic belief?

It's not connected, that's the point. They still are patriotic, that is what I criticise, not them advocated miltary passivity.

How do you know they're still "patriotic"? Unless you have ESP. They may have pride in their country (which is not wrong), but I don't think they have the patriotism you would see in people who advocate interventionism.