glad to see this is still not dead, good progress.

When I saw the title of the thread/map I really thought it would be based on current ongoing wars, with ISIS effectively represented as a country, Kurdish regions of Turkey/Syria/Iraq separated off, stuff like that. I think it would be more interesting for it, although obviously the border is rather poorly defined and changes week to week.

My only other big bit of feedback is that because most of the bonus areas are single territories and are so small, they have names that almost all players won't really know, which makes playing the map harder. If bonus areas were larger rather than individual territories, you could have things like 'SW Egypt' as bonus names, which would be far easier to understand or relate to. (Still keep Mecca, Dubai, Riyadh etc. as small bonus areas in their own rights.) Trying to communicate with a teammate who can't use the Ctrl+click feature that you're going for Al Kanais (large 1 in SE Egypt with strategic importance - can defend several territories to east or west while threatening many in the other direction) would be really annoying and time-consuming.

A good example of that is in Rise of Rome. While most people don't know the territory or bonus names, the superbonus areas are extremely relevant and relatively recognisable just from the map, and a lot of people refer to them as Italy, Spain, UK, France or Germany because they largely represent those areas on a modern map (sorry Benelux, Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, Ireland...). The superbonuses on the Middle East 2016 map are such a tiny fraction of total production that going for bonuses (as opposed to controlling everything behind a choke point) is very unimportant, so team games and diplos would be more difficult than they need to be just due to communication difficulties.

Final little one, the ports in the Persian Gulf seem a bit odd. If I can go directly from Dubai to Kuwait, why can't I go to Jubail or Ahram (or others) too?

When I saw the title of the thread/map I really thought it would be based on current ongoing wars, with ISIS effectively represented as a country, Kurdish regions of Turkey/Syria/Iraq separated off, stuff like that. I think it would be more interesting for it, although obviously the border is rather poorly defined and changes week to week.

As for this Bonuses are available for these groups and regions which will be added allowing for accurate gameplay of the current situation.

My only other big bit of feedback is that because most of the bonus areas are single territories and are so small, they have names that almost all players won't really know, which makes playing the map harder. If bonus areas were larger rather than individual territories, you could have things like 'SW Egypt' as bonus names, which would be far easier to understand or relate to. (Still keep Mecca, Dubai, Riyadh etc. as small bonus areas in their own rights.) Trying to communicate with a teammate who can't use the Ctrl+click feature that you're going for Al Kanais (large 1 in SE Egypt with strategic importance - can defend several territories to east or west while threatening many in the other direction) would be really annoying and time-consuming.

A good example of that is in Rise of Rome. While most people don't know the territory or bonus names, the superbonus areas are extremely relevant and relatively recognisable just from the map, and a lot of people refer to them as Italy, Spain, UK, France or Germany because they largely represent those areas on a modern map (sorry Benelux, Portugal, Austria, Switzerland, Ireland...). The superbonuses on the Middle East 2016 map are such a tiny fraction of total production that going for bonuses (as opposed to controlling everything behind a choke point) is very unimportant, so team games and diplos would be more difficult than they need to be just due to communication difficulties.

Okay, now as for this. The first major point to make is that this is a diplomacy map, not a strategy or FFA map. This means that larger bonuses would severely unbalance the game and map. As for names and difficulty of communication between players, I personally do not feel that it limits a diplo game, the first reason is that diplo games happen over longer times and there isn't a rush to make orders, many are multi day so such an issue becomes irrelevant. Of course not being able to use the Ctrl+Click feature means that it's difficult to convey your message but rough descriptions would be effective in conveying a point such as a claim.

Final little one, the ports in the Persian Gulf seem a bit odd. If I can go directly from Dubai to Kuwait, why can't I go to Jubail or Ahram (or others) too?

Finally, trasport around the Persian Gulf is pretty fast without the need for every territory to connect to every other one.

Edited 5/30/2016 21:44:46

so many amazing but unfinished maps around on the forums

I would definitely add Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan. There is plenty of room up at the top for them.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjsvbyKsY3NAhUDQFIKHer2ABkQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.123rf.com%2Fphoto_11790673_map-of-south-caucasus-with-armenia-georgia-ossetia-abkhazia-azerbaijan.html&psig=AFQjCNF33_G4RxooTncc4APvRCAdXMJH9Q&ust=1465095726435834

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj5l5eXsY3NAhUMPVIKHagNBCQQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lahistoriaconmapas.com%2Fatlas%2Fcountry-map01%2Farmenia-georgia-azerbaijan-map.htm&psig=AFQjCNF33_G4RxooTncc4APvRCAdXMJH9Q&ust=1465095726435834


If you plan on doing this, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Nagorno-Karabakh arent technically countries however in the first image they may appear to be. I recommend making these seperate bonus' yet include them in Georgia and Armenia bonus'.


I would also love to test.

-DerWyyy

Some aesthetic issues have risen up, please ignore them while I sort them out, they will in no way be like that when the map is published, also as for the Caucasus, I will not be adding it is that region is not within the definition of the Original Middle East, although it is in the 'Greater Middle East'. However I have already announced that I will be making a Greater Middle East map which will contain regions such as The Caucasus, Afghanistan, Pakistan and other 'Greater Middle East' regions.

palestine is not a real state

Snoop, honestly, play this map however you want to, Palestine will remain as a state, I have many reasons for doing this and Cheesus has already explained the main one. You're from Israel so I understand the inclination for your viewpoint,but with 193 member states of the UN supporting Palestine as a state, I'm going to stick with it as it is.

How is it progressing?

Ok, so here is the current situation. Country bonuses are pretty much done, only Iran and Iraq to go. Rebels and unrecognised states will take a very short time to do, so you can count them pretty much done as well. Then it's testing. So the first test will be a FFA where everyone starts with one territory to make sure there are no OP territories and that all connections are there, this test will be repeated twice. The next test will only happen if we get enough testers, it will be a proper diplomacy test with everyone in a distribution to check that the map is fair and realistic: This is the planned distribution:

-Egypt
-Israel
-Lebanon
-Jordan
-Palestine
-Turkey
-Oman
-Qatar
-Yemen
-Kuwait
-UAE
-Bahrain
-Syria
-Cyprus
-Iraq
-Iran
-Saudi Arabia
-Kurdish Forces
-Northern Cyprus
-DAESH (ISIS)
-Al Qaeda
-Houthis
-Syrian Rebels

That is going to need 23 testers though and as it stands we have 12 who are:
KRETOMA
TABBY JUGGERNAUT #3
STEWIE
TEAMGUNS
KING C*******V
ZAHAAN ALI
FC BAYERN
PIGEACORN
DAVID
SHREDTAIL2
LORD SCOTT
ZEPHYRUM
SLEEPYBEAR
IAMTALLER
FLEECEMASTER
MASTER AERKO
GENERAL PE
OXTHEARTIST


So please please sign up for testing.

Edited 6/16/2016 10:20:07

Also, Feline Juggernaut, what do you think of how I've named the bonuses now eg:
Egypt/Misr
Jordan/Al Urdun
Palestine/Filastin

Seriously, I don't think you need to do this. Just keep all the names English, it makes things generally easier and the names are shorter. You don't have to translate...

:3

Where's ISIS?

finally, testing is about to start. Can't wait!

I'm willing to test the map, it looks interesting!

Me! Me! Me!

i'll test

@OxTheAutist No I want this delusion to end. Learning how to properly transliterate Hebrew (actually 'Ivrit) and Arabic (actually Arabi) is the first step to understanding what's going on in the Middle East. I wish people know how to properly spell Yerushalayim and other cities. I believe certain Bible translators are the reason there are so many inaccurate transliterations.

No "Misr" is not less English than the Greek-influenced word, "Egypt". In fact I argue that "Misr" is what the country is actually called while "Egypt" is absurd..unless people in that country largely speak a language that refers to the land as "Egypt" or something similar. "Misr" is one of the legitimate transliterations into English.

Are you Żuktru's alt?

TESTING HAS FINALLY BEGUN!
It'd still be great if you kept signing up to test though, it'd be great to get enough players to test the diplo scenario and check that it is balanced.

Edited 6/16/2016 10:30:20

As it stands, the current map would have the nations ranked as so:
Iran - 261 TPT
Turkey - 207 TPT
Egypt - 161 TPT
Saudi Arabia - 132 TPT
Iraq - 94 TPT
Syria - 62 TPT
Yemen - 56 TPT
Oman - 49 TPT
Jordan - 34 TPT
UAE - 33 TPT
Israel - 27 TPT
Lebanon -17 TPT
Kuwait - 16 TPT
Cyprus - 16 TPT
Palestine - 14 TPT
Qatar - 12 TPT
Bahrain - 10 TPT

Okay there are multiple things you need to bare in mind while reading that list, first of all is that it is only of soverign nations controlling all of their soverign land at full power, so no rebels are accounted for in this distribution. So please no one say something like 'Iraq has rebels right now, they are in no way that high'.

Second thing you need to account for is that these TPT include a +5 from the settings.

Thirdly and finally, these are not finished, I know Iran is too powerful and that Saudi Arabia is too weak, it'd be great if you gave a rough estimate at where they should be rather than telling me it is wrong right now.


Second Scenario is the Current Situation scenario, as its stands these are the distribution TPT.

Iran - 261 TPT
Turkey - 207 TPT
Egypt - 161 TPT
Saudi Arabia - 132 TPT
Iraq - 56 TPT
Yemen - 56 TPT
Oman - 49 TPT
Daesh (ISIS) - 41 TPT
Jordan - 34 TPT
UAE - 33 TPT
PKK (Kurds) - 31 TPT
Israel - 27 TPT
Syrian Opposition - 24 TPT
Syria - 18 TPT
Lebanon -17 TPT
Kuwait - 16 TPT
Cyprus - 16 TPT
Palestine - 14 TPT
Qatar - 12 TPT
Bahrain - 10 TPT


Extra Info:

Kurdistan would have - 106 TPT
Northern Cyprus would have - 9 TPT