After reading all of these long posts I've decided better not to participate in the idea to create a second World Nations map but rather quit. I don't want to object me to all of its criticism, even if I do I'll get complaints anyway. These things are all under discussion What's relevant and what's not? Goodluck finding someone else to make it.

Yup, 2014 did get Somaliland under the name Hargeysa.

Kosovo, Bahrain, Qatar and Palestine are too small to fit in the map, wouldn't have space for 2 territories. Their regions are already sorta clumped.

Donetsk fall under "Kharkov" in Ukraine. Tbh, Ukraine needs to be better divided.

Alaska could connect to British Columbia.

~~~

Rather than just a split, Brazil needs a serious rework. Like, the territories don't even make sense.

Taiwan also needs a buff. Same for Singapore.

Siberia could have split a little for better territory sizes, ones that fit the map, but have their income reduced somewhat.

Somaliland, Puntland, Hong Kong-Macau, Svalbard are autonomous, not independent.

They are unusually highly autonomous (as I noted). And Somaliland is independent.

Levant isn't a country- I'm not sure where you got that from.

From the most violent ongoing conflict in which news everywhere talks about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Donetsk and Luhansk, Palestine are not internationally recognized as independent states.

It doesn't matter. They're clearly independent/very important/disputed regions. Ukraine does not control Luhansk, like it or not. As for Palestine - same thing, but it can also be considered a region with very high autonomy, which is another ground for inclusion. And it is UN-majority (70.5%) recognised independent. Compare Israel 83%; not much more.

Vanuatu, Fiji/New Caledonia, Bahrain and Trinidad and Tobago are island states.

They've all over 1 million folk, and are somewhat important (especially Bahrain). Or would you rather exclude Réunion, Singapore, Indoensia, and all the other island states? What is your bias to island states?

Artsakh does not exist today.

You probably landed on this page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artsakh
Here is what I am referring to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_Republic

Sahrawi is represented on the map.

So there are 2 territories in West Sahara?

The others should be represented (as well as Bhutan)

In my diplomacies, the territory named Sikkim I put as Bhutan, as the land area it is on is mostly Bhutanese. That's why I'm saying Sikkim and the international isthmus should go back to India.

The countries and regions here all have considerable land area and/or population.

You can't be serious. China is OP in 2012 and 2014 to the max. China shouldn't even come close to the US because they don't even come close to the US in military strength. China's power is so fucking overrated in every game because people think population = strength when it really doesn't. If bonuses = military power (which they should - more realistic) then the US should have a strong lead, followed by Russia and then China.

China is quite weak in 2012 and 2014. It's, what, 2/3 or 3/4 America's income? In my rebonusing of it, it's about 5/2 America's income. It's a bigger economy, it's a bigger exporter, it's got some countries in financial holds. Population is a major factor in military strength, and having 4x the population generally is a great advantage.

Folk often cite military strength - do you have any idea how strong China and America are, really? Very little. They don't want to expose too much of their power. Look up Sardinnian basement for more information.

Russia is way overpowered. Declining population, economy, rich folk have been slowly leaving since ~2001, terrorism problems (especially in the past), and Kazakhs coming right in with low money and decreasing the GDP by each head. Compared to China, needs to be: 1/7; compared to America or India: 1/3; compared to Japan or Brazil: 4/5. Russia has been, since 1991, considerably weaker than what media in NATO tells.

>China more powerful than US

KEK

Even if you go by economic strength the US still wins. Also the Chinese economy is desperately dependent on America and the West but the reverse is not true. American companies and investors can simply move out of China at anytime and they're fucked. It's happening right now, actually.

Edited 10/31/2015 23:15:55

Even if you go by economic strength the US still wins. Also the Chinese economy is desperately dependent on America and the West but the reverse is not true.

According to the IMF and World Bank, China has a bigger economy, is the biggest exporter, the second biggest importer (after America), and owes about 2/3 of America's 100%< debt. There are some sources that say that America owes ~8% debt to China; show me one that isn't published by a NATO influence organisation. On other hand, China has ~40% debt and about 1/6 of it to America. So the American economy is desperately dependent on China and international relations but the reverse is not true.

Having a profile picture and name like that, I thought you would not be supporting America, but no, you probably thought Castle Bravo was one of America's finest moments.

Honestly I think that China and the US are about par for world power currently, but there is at least a general consensus that the US and China occupy the number one and two spots on the world power index in no particular order. If you guys are arguing about bonus sizes for World Nations, it really doesn't matter because almost everyone who uses it for custom scenarios changes the bonuses, making the bonuses the map creator sets arbitrary.

My personal opinion on World Nations is that it could do with a bit of touch up, and that the territories (except in the US) are terribly divided, ignoring actual administrative boundaries all over the place.

almost everyone who uses it for custom scenarios changes the bonuses, making the bonuses the map creator sets arbitrary.

I actually find it rare that 20%< boni are changed.

Really? We must be frequenting different games types then.

The really sad thing is that this map will need a remake every year. It would be so much easier if there was just one map family called World Nations and the mapmaker updated it every year. It would avoid so much map clutter.

Edited 11/1/2015 00:06:53

The really sad thing is that this map will need a remake every year. It would be so much easier if there was just one map family called World Nations and the mapmaker updated it every year. It would avoid so much map clutter.

I don't think so. What has really significantly changed from 2012 in demography and borders? Few.

The very nature of the title precludes that. Also, we don't know what kind of new borders will be drawn, conflicts, etc. in the future. It might just be that I'm overthinking this, but we'd also need to include other basically autonomous regions like the area Boko Haram controls, or the lands that the Houthis or ISIL or the government control in Yemen. My point is that with a map of this nature, frequent revisions and repeats of this thread are inevitable.

Well the only changes were the newly created state in central India and Russian intervention in Crimea.

Actually, Crimea has been here since 2012, able to be bit of Russia. Boko Haram is tiny and Yemen is insignificant, but still divided into 3 territories anyway.

My point still stands. Because this map aims to show all the world's nations (hence the title), and because the definition of nation is slippery, the map is going to need frequent changes to account for things like ISIL and other civil wars like the one in Libya.

If I really wanted to nitpick, the map currently called "World Nations" should be a map of ethnicities that think of themselves as a nation or deserving of one (Catalonia, Palestine, Brittany), and this map should be renamed to "World States" (not as catchy though).

Yes please, a new map with more territories would be what I need (there are larger maps, but not with territory-bonuses)

And I wouldn't considere merging, but making many more territories.

Yemen is not three territories in 2014, it's 2.

Socotra is not it's own territory in 2014? It is in 2012.

...Oh wait, I keep forgetting Socotra. Dammit.

Indeed 3, but then again Socotra is mostly there for intercontinental battling. I like that. Not much of a reason to merge back Yemen as split it's just way better for making scenarios where the British Empire appears.

African territories are too big, by the way.

Scotland should be at least 4 territories, while England should be merged, and Wales made into 2 territories.

Ha, are you sincere, Ox?