+100000 Ryrio

China 1vs1 sucks

Dang it guys! We can't play China 1vs1 anymore because the almighty HHH thinks it sucks!

What if you could play China 1vs1 for coins against noobs?

you can vote on which ones get removed, that's not a requires discussion me thinks,

maybe except for EA&O which makes more sense to replace with proper settings instead of just removing.

i think the realtime ladder would be cool to have a poland map template aswell, it's different strategy and also quite popular.maybe something like this:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=737033
just made it, still have to test play and tweak.

china 1v1 is great, don't get the hate.

Luck should be removed from real-time ladder to make it consistent with other auto templates.

The current number of templates does not make sense. It should be either one template or at least a couple of hundred.
One template lowers the entry barrier and boost the participation rate. We need it in RT ladder.
Many templates make it possible to find the true master. RT is not required for this.

So RT ladder should run on 1 template. This template must be the most familiar template for most players to boost the participation rate. Strategic 1 v 1 template makes perfect sense here. It does not matter that multi-day ladder features the same template. Some players never play multi-day. Ever.

There should be another ladder for 'true masters'. It should be multi-day. It should feature hundreds of templates. It should feature many different maps, e. g. every map of the week except Duel. It should feature every setting possible in every combination possible. Local deployment, multi-attack, no-split, cards, no cards, distributions, kill rates, fogs, wastelands, the number of neutrals, custom scenarios, tweaked bonuses, everything. There should be a template of the week poll so that every week one template is added to the templates pool. But any of these make no sense for RT ladder.

Edited 10/25/2015 14:58:59

wow. just wow. i hope fizzer won't read this. he might think the "communtiy" requests this...

Edit: The real Problem the rt ladder has, are a few really bad templates that Need to get replaced. a restriction of matchups might be the wrong Thing right now, but when more good Players Play this ladder again, the noobs will Play more often too. it's not that hard. small changes have a big Impact.

Edited 10/25/2015 15:03:54

also idk from where you get the idea that players don't join because there are too many templates for them to handle,that has never been an issue

You claim "that has never been an issue". I can even bet on it.
We can make a survey to ask all players for their opinions, if you do think it is never an issue.

At least I know a few who complain there are too many templates. I'm sure there are more who share the same mind.
Also the more templates we have, the higher chance there is a template that someone hates, so it is somehow related.
"Good template" is somehow subjective. Different people have different preferences.

a good player should know how to play the game well,not just a particular template

Why don't multiday ladders have multiple templates then, if it is something necessary to make a good ladder?

Currently the most successful ladder is 1v1, and it has one template only.
You still have to play well if you want to be on the top. It does not matter how many templates you have in a ladder.

Having said that I see the charm of having multiple templates. I'm just arguing about the number.

they don't join because of the bad templates,not because of too many templates

I agree. By removing the bad templates, we will reduce the number of templates too.
Unless you think we must replace another one before we can remove a bad one, it has no conflicts.

also,it'll be a great experience to learn how to play in various situations for new players as well as old ones

Yes but it is a barrier for new players since they have to familiarize so many templates before joining, not to say master them. Higher barrier => lower participation rate.

if we stick to the current limited templates,we'd never know the possible scenarios that could happen in different kind of strategic games

Yes it is true, but ladder is not a good way to try different scenarios since it wouldn't be changed often.

You can always create games with different scenarios. I enjoy some really unique (sometimes seemingly crazy) games set in the Open Games section. We can even make a tournament for that. The possibility is unlimited.

Edited 10/25/2015 15:21:08

Every map of the week except duel? Are you serious?

Let me reiterate, but change my opinion. Here is a large list of templates worthy for RT ladder.

Strategic 1v1 0%WR
Greece 1v1
Battle Islands 1v1
Guiroma 1v1
Strategic 1v1 0% SR
Macedonia 1v1
Fast ME
Slow ME
Poland 1v1
Turkey 1v1
Turkey 1v1 LD
Treasure Map 1v1
Treasure Map 1v1 LD
GME 1v1 LD
France 1v1
Europe LFD
Medium Earth LFD
EA&O LFD
Snow Mountains
Heavy Earth 1v1
Phobia 1v1
Ancient China 1v1
Pangea Ultima 1v1
Pangea Multi-Attack
Pangea LFD
China 1v1
LOTR 1v1
Sao Paulo 1v1
Szeurope 1v1
Sumo 1v1
Gnuffone's Season III
Greece 1v1 LD
Battle Islands MA
Season XIX 
Imperium Romanium LD
Greece LFD
ME LFD

Edited 10/25/2015 15:10:57

I support a very large pool of templates, that would make the RT a unique place.

EA&O is good as it is, just make it 0%SR or 0%WR and it's fine

quoting from Master Ryiro:

also idk from where you get the idea that players don't join because there are too many templates for them to handle,that has never been an issue
they don't join because of the bad templates,not because of too many templates

The number of templates is the reason why I'm not so much interested in this ladder. Here's what I wrote in the previous discussion ("Is the Real Time Ladder dying")

Some templates are good, some are bad (as it's said above); but I think the idea of having 10 templates is the real problem here. This is a big number; you have to spend great, considerable effort so as to become an average player in all of them. I, personally, can claim to be so only in 2-3 of them; this means I haven't even started working on the other 7-8. It gives me great stress to join the ladder, because I'm afraid to find myself playing on a setting I know I haven't even get used to.

If the total number of templates was 5 or 6 instead of 10, I'd be more motivated to say to myself "Whatever man, just join and see what you can do!"

So you have at least one example :)

(https://www.warlight.net/Forum/113841-real-time-ladder-dying )

EA&O is good as it is, just make it 0%SR or 0%WR and it's fine

I join Sephiroth on this.

seriously it disturbs my mind when some of you try to explain all the bullshit you wrote earlier when you haven't even played a single game on the ladder so far
i mean,wtf?

To be honest, I think the RT ladder is less popular partially because it is RT. I personally don't play on it because I have other games that I would like to play for an hour or so at a time. After a game of CS:GO, however, I love coming back to Warlight and taking my turn in any available multi-day game.

I became really bored with spending 30 minutes matched up against slammy, Beren, CONQUISTADORS, or any of the many players clearly way above my skill level.

Edited 10/25/2015 19:23:47

Well then don't play the RT ladder, and to people who don't play, please stop complaining. I was a noob on all the templates, but it only took me a couple of months to be good/average on ALL of them: and I'm pretty sure that if a new one showed up, I would have no trouble adapting after a few games.
Its just a question of pratice, so don't complain about the "huge number" of Rt templates because if you are, you are not a good player. Ofc you can complain about the bad ones, and if everyone does hate one, ofc it should be removed.

But not everyone hates luck, and I'm pretty sure leaving luck templates on the Rt ladder is a good showcase of how people have to adapt themselves to situations. And if you put everything in SR, its not going to be very fun: imo, rt ladder is there to experiment and test situations you aren't entirely familiar with, and only then can you truly progress.

Like I said, 1vs1 ladder is different from the rt ladder, so don't compare the two? In fact diversity is what Warlight needs, and a huge pool of templates is much better than a select few.

You look bad when you say Beren is way above your skill level. He probably just got lucky :P

I am generally a fan of more templates as long as they are generally accepted to be strategic rather than less, since it makes it less important to be an expert on a specific template.

And MotD, you're just jealous that he didn't single you out.

+1 Master Ryiro

The biggest problem for 1v1 ladder is lack of activity and lack of new players. Personally I'd think that in order to make rt ladder alive, changes in terms of restrictions are needed, my suggestion would be to allow any player with a confirmed e-mail address to play regardless of level and even encourage new players in some way to try their luck on rt ladder as one of their first exxperiences. Almost all major e-sports are dynamic in terms of gameplay, which in warlight terms is rt play. Of course it just has a different aspect than multiday games, but I strongly believe at some point rt games will have to be prioratised.

In terms of construction and rating system it is by far superior to any other ladder, promoting more active players and being "stallingproof". When it comes to templates I distinctly remember being very sceptical when I joined rt ladder for the first time, but the more I played it, the more I enjoyed the variety of different templates despite being initially hostile towards local deployments idea for example. The other thing that surprised me is even with slightly weird settings, like diplo cards, the amount of luck you can manage and the amount of skill required to play is not that different from more standardised 1v1 templates (with very few exceptions). That may be, because it is extremely hard to balance a 1v1 template due to various reasons (picking dominant strategies A>B are often game ending and leads at some point to multiple rock-paper-scissors scenarios). Overall if at some point Fizzer decides it's time to change sth, here is my advice in terms of templates:
1) introduce new templates up to 20-25 total
2) ask experienced players for a coherent list of different strategic templates
3) introduce a veto system and give 2-3 vetoes for every player, that way if you dislike specifically 2-3 templates, you can (but don't have to!) veto them out when you search for a game.

Still, I guess it's almost impossible to make a completely balanced 1v1 template, so I'm always more inclined to experiment with "weird" settings in 1v1 templates rather than team games. Also, people who now say EA&O is so bad, tend to forget we started with an ffa and autodistribution templates :)