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Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 10:06:47


Angry Koala
Level 57
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I once played the RT Ladder some months ago while I had my former account, but I remember we did not wait that much for a game, nowadays you sometimes have to wait for hours (the last game today was 7 hours ago...), what is happening?

I was wondering if to set a level limit was a good idea, since way less players can access the ladders...
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 11:32:07


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Perhaps people are tired of the templates? I know there are a few I cant stand, I am sure everyone has a few they hate.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 11:34:06


Angry Koala
Level 57
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oh ok I see chris, but then why people arent bored that much about the 1vs1 ladder since there is only one map provided?
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 11:40:54


KKND
Level 59
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1v1 nicely balanced and crowded
RealTime is not suitable for me, i have another timezone, i hate some templates and there is no way you can change it
The last reason is really annoying
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 11:45:20


Judeburger 
Level 59
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1v1 has one good template (which is better with randomized value bonuses, so I play the CLOT randomized ladder) 1v1 realtime has some good ones, and some bad ones. I think many players find multi-day more convenient too.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 12:42:31


Buns157 
Level 67
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I find it's because most the time nobody wants to be the first one to sit around and wait in there.

But i will admit having a high rating sometimes causes it to be hours without getting a game. Since it matches from bottom to top.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 13:16:33


master of desaster 
Level 65
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That behaviour would change if a player with a 2000 rating can get a matchup with a player who got a 1000rating. But if there was a restriction there would maybe be even less games
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 13:28:23


Buns157 
Level 67
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@mod do you mean can't?

I wouldnt mind a restriction for games where you win and still lose points though.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 13:32:06


Ƨillynamenace
Level 57
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It must be mostly because of the number of the templates. Some templates are good, some are bad (as it's said above); but I think the idea of having 10 templates is the real problem here. This is a big number; you have to spend great, considerable effort so as to become an average player in all of them. I, personally, can claim to be so only in 2-3 of them; this means I haven't even started working on the other 7-8. It gives me great stress to join the ladder, because I'm afraid to find myself playing on a setting I know I haven't even get used to.

If the total number of templates was 5 or 6 instead of 10, I'd be more motivated to say to myself "Whatever man, just join and see what you can do!"


And you can't even practice the China template outside of the ladder!
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 13:36:22


Buns157 
Level 67
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Well if the templates are not changed often, 10 templates is fine in my opinion. If they were changed like its suppose to, I would not mind if they were 6 good templates.

Also what are you on about, you can play china?

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9634974
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 13:40:55

inquisitor
Level 56
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I would say the level requirement sucks. It largely limits the number of players who can join. When you have even no player in the real time ladder some hours every day, why do you still want to limit it?

Will you want to play a real-time game when you have to wait so long to match a player?

Even the most popular ladder has about 300 players only. Others are much worse. It is far from satisfactory.

They entry to a ladder shouldn't be a privilege. It is beneficial to the whole community if we largely decrease the level requirements.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 13:45:48


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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decreasing level requirements would result in more alts IMO. Since games to not expire on RT ladder, people will become frustrated with their poor rating because they have not gotten good at the templates. they will create an alt and try to start over, especially if the level needed is lower, you can get the alt there faster.

I say just drop the 2-3 templates that everyone hates, or fix them.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 13:51:06


Ƨillynamenace
Level 57
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Also what are you on about, you can play china?

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9634974


Once there was this problem:
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/76995-china-template-realtime-ladder

I don't know, maybe it's been solved by now - which is a good news. Thanks for letting me know.

Edited 10/13/2015 13:51:21
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 13:54:52


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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nothing is changed, and i will tell you the same i told you some months ago:

you can use an older version of a map if you have the template saved..
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 14:02:37


Ƨillynamenace
Level 57
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I didn't save that template. I wasn't able to create the game on the map (v. 1.2) previously. But now I can.

Okay, though, maybe I'm mistaken at some point in this story. I won't insist.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 16:03:25

inquisitor
Level 56
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decreasing level requirements would result in more alts IMO. Since games to not expire on RT ladder, people will become frustrated with their poor rating because they have not gotten good at the templates. they will create an alt and try to start over, especially if the level needed is lower, you can get the alt there faster.


Well using alt is permitted in this site as long as you don't use them to cheat. You can join a ladder with an alt (as long as you don't join with more than one account in the same period). It is not against the rules.

I think it is good for them if they want to start over again with an alt. Otherwise they may stop playing and quit the ladder, resulting in even fewer participants.

Even if you think it is an issue, level requirement is not a good solution. It just delays the problem. It does not solve it. Also it is easy to cheat massive points. A main can easily help an alt to level up and unlock all ladders after about 4 rigged games with custom scenarios.

Forget about alts. The major issue now is extremely low participation rate. This is what we should work on.

I say just drop the 2-3 templates that everyone hates, or fix them.


It is a good one. I would say we can even cut half or more. Why do we have so many templates in a RT ladder, not to say some are really bad? It only serves to scare people away.

Edited 10/13/2015 16:57:30
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 16:05:23


Ƨillynamenace
Level 57
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It is a good one. I would say we can even cut half or more. Why do we have so many templates in a RT ladder, not to say some are really bad? It only serves to scare people away.


My point, stated better.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 16:11:16


master of desaster 
Level 65
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I joined with an alt and later with my main. They were ranked the same time and i got a report that i might get banned. Fizzer wrote me on the reporting message that it's NOT ok to use alts. He doesn't care if they were used on cheating purposes
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 16:55:07

inquisitor
Level 56
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I joined with an alt and later with my main. They were ranked the same time and i got a report that i might get banned. Fizzer wrote me on the reporting message that it's NOT ok to use alts. He doesn't care if they were used on cheating purposes


I think it is because you joined with your main and alt. It is possible to cheat win in the situation where your main vs alt, and you could get an easy win to boost ratings.

What if your main left and then your alt joined? I think it should be ok. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 16:59:19


master of desaster 
Level 65
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I didn't join with both of them the same time of course. I was ranked the same time. I don't consider that as cheating but you might affect the rating of other players in a way that gives you an advantage. Therefore it's not allowed to play with an alt on the rt ladder at all.
Easy solution: just lie forever that it wasn't your alt and you won't get punished. That happened before on ladders. Worst thing is admitting anything.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 16:59:48

TBest 
Level 60
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They can't be RANKED at the same time. So for the RT ladder you have to wait 3 days for one to be unranked again.
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 17:05:48


master of desaster 
Level 65
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As far as i understood from the ban warning, i'm not allowed to play with my alt on the rt ladder ever again. He wrote me the message like all alts are generally forbidden on 1vs1 ladders. I'd be active with my alt on the rt ladder, but if my alt is not allowed to play, why should i play at all?
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 19:22:07


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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well, I would say you should be fine as long as they are both not ranked at the same time, no? But perhaps it is different on RT ladder since you could easily join when you see someone on you want to beat and manipulate the ladder (you have some control over match-ups, unlike 1v1 ladder)

I mean you can't let the games expire on RT ladder.

I've played with my alt and main on the 1v1 ladders, but never been ranked and/or active at the same time. The whole intent was to play the 2v2 ladder, then the template went to crap.

Edited 10/13/2015 19:24:54
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/13/2015 21:49:17


Ƨillynamenace
Level 57
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Do you think we can find a way to quantify WL players' interest in the RT ladder?

Perhaps we could check the average number of games played in the ladder every week. If this number is really dropping, we might make a concrete claim with regards to the original question in the title of this thread. This could initiate even more productive discussions.

Edited 10/13/2015 21:49:39
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/15/2015 15:53:31


Ƨillynamenace
Level 57
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?
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/15/2015 15:59:20


master of desaster 
Level 65
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as i pointed out before, there are 2 bad things on that ladder. firstly, easy to implement, a Change of some templates. the second Point that prevents me from playing is that there is no restriction on who you Play against. i don't want to Play games where i can't get Points for a win or even worse, lose 1 Point. I don't know if that can be avoided with an adjustment of the trueskill algorithm, or if it can only be done by putting a range depending on the Rating of players for matchups

Edited 10/15/2015 16:21:28
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/15/2015 16:19:11


[WM] Gnuffone 
Level 60
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i agree wtih change template, for the algoryth, fizzer can't change it, he has to put a range in matching system
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/16/2015 18:40:16

inquisitor
Level 56
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Perhaps we could check the average number of games played in the ladder every week.


You will have to browse through https://www.warlight.net/LadderGames?ID=3 and do the count, or ask Fizzer if he could provide such data.

Just a rough look. The numbers are very low. Currently it has only about 400 games per week, 40-60 games per day.

Edited 10/16/2015 18:47:39
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/16/2015 18:41:29


master of desaster 
Level 65
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if i'd Play it'd be already like 20 games more every day... just saying :D
Is the Real Time Ladder dying?: 10/16/2015 20:02:14

Gaer56
Level 50
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Well there are some things that some pepole wont join.
I think that main reason that pepole panic because of strong/low point players , and the templates that not everyone likes.
I wonder what would be if the players would be hidden just as in coin games.
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