I am disappointed with the poll..... The " ------------- "only got 5 votes :( And I voted twice... so only 3 votes apart from me.

Hahaha... so you are one of the trolls. XD

Well you voted twice but it does not mean it will be counted twice. That poll has an anti-cheat system in place. Your second vote will simply be discarded if the system detects it.

Worst case: The identities of 4 trolls are still unknown.

Now that Fizzer finally has a glimmer of proof that the community is in his favor, he will shove this poll in our faces whenever we question him about WR/SR. gg guys, Fizzer wins.

Epicular, nice work in 1vs1 ladder

@THE PLAGUE
thanks for all the effort you put into organising the poll, even if some aren't happy with the results. I am sure everyone appreciates the fact you did it.

You are welcome.

@ps
ah, i think i do recall seeing it before after all.
title might not have been the best to call to action, missing the poll keyword.

Did you vote? No?

Responses to a few points made in the thread

this poll was incomplete

I think it is worth mentioning why I created this poll in the first place. You know many players were in rage when the developer pushed the changes on ladders, with the most complaining about the change from WR to SR. Since this change is so controversial, I'm curious to know which one people actually prefer. That's why we have this poll.

This poll is not meant to find out the majority preference of every single setting, so yes it is incomplete, but it is never its purpose.

16% WR, 0% WR, and 0% SR. This is what should be voted on.

1v1 ladder has been 0% luck long time ago. Only 2v2 ladder was 16% luck, but I don't see anyone complaining about that being removed. In fact people were complaining why 2v2 ladder was still at 16% luck. I think this is a welcome change.

What's more it would only split the votes of WR even if it was included. I think it would be rare for someone who prefers SR would vote 16% WR instead.

Anyway does anyone want 16% SR/WR in ladder games? Voice your choice. Maybe I can make another poll if we see a big demand for them.

There should be prerequisite questions about this.

It could happen to both sides, and it is their personal preference after all. People can like or dislike something. It hasn't to be 100% rational. I don't think we should judge/challenge their choices.

do you really think this poll wasn't rigged? do you believe in making another poll would Change anything? Fizzer made a decision and after that, he promised that he would set up a poll if the uservoice would be big enough. Now you took that work from him with an unnofficial poll, that turned official now, cause the result pleased fizzer.

The poll could be rigged either way, but it is not accurate because people who don't know what is sr or wr could vote and people can vote more than once.

people can vote muliple times.

This poll has an anti-cheat system in place. You are not allowed to vote more than once. Even if you do, your votes will be discarded. Having said that, the system is not 100% solid. If someone is so determined to cheat, they could bypass it (let's not go into details how to cheat). But that is the problem of any Internet polls and the like. There is no sure-fire way to prevent this.

However I think the number of fraudulent votes should be low. Why?

Because I believe no single player is so ill-minded to cheat massively to twist the result.
Why do you want to do it anyway?
This poll is never official.
This poll didn't even get a sticky.
This poll has no actual effect.
Not that the developer said this poll would determine the fate of the ladders blah blah blah...
(If it were the case, it would have provided good incentive for any player from either side to cheat.)

It takes much time and effort to cheat, man!!
No one knows in advance it would be in the spotlight when the result was released.
It is possible the result thread draws litte attention, and is forgotten by the community after 1 day.

Edited 10/10/2015 22:57:35

Why do you want to do it anyway?
This poll is never official.
This poll didn't even get a sticky.
This poll has no actual effect.

nobody cared about the poll. but the results are sticky now and it has the effect that fizzer can just Claim that we had our poll he promised due to the uservoice.

How to vote multiple times: 1. change your ip 2. clear history and cookies 3. vote

yeah I don't think that many people will vote too many times but even 1 person can twist the result with such a low sample.

I think however think this poll is biased and should not be used as an accurate source of info. It could go either way; over-voted wr or over-voted sr.

Now you took that work from him with an unnofficial poll, that turned official now

Well I don't think he will treat this poll as official. The timeline of those incidents is:

Fizzer pushed the changes on ladders
Many players were in rage
I created a poll
Fizzer's live chat started
You asked if making a uservoice could make him reconsider the decision and change back
He said possible
You created a uservoice

So my poll happened well before your incident. Not that I want to take work from him. I have no crystal ball and couldn't predict what would happen in future at the time I created a poll.

Fizzer made a decision and after that, he promised that he would set up a poll if the uservoice would be big enough.

Really? Well maybe I'm wrong. I didn't hear Fizzer made such a promise in his last live chat.
If my memory serves, you asked at that time if you made a uservoice and there were enough votes, would he reconsider his decision and changed back.
He said you could make a uservoice. It is possible but it is not a decision to be taken lightly.

Fizzer, could you clarify it?

Right now the uservoice received more than 200 votes in a short time. It is big enough.
If he did make such a promise, he should make an official poll.
There is one good reason why he shouldn't just take my poll.
My poll didn't get a sticky, so the result is clearly biased towards those who visit forums often.

I think it is time for you to ask him to honor his promise now.

i did like one weeks ago. he won't react on the uservoice i think. at least he didn't react till now and it got over 200 votes for a while already

the results are sticky now and it has the effect that fizzer can just Claim that we had our poll he promised due to the uservoice.

Well I have a feeling you are bashing me because I made a poll on this. Funny enough. I hear complaints from both sides about the result XD. No side is completely satisfied with it.

Anyway I think it is generally good to collect the community opinions, and we should do more. I'm in no way to control how one will use the result. It is their own business. I don't think it is something I should care about before I make a poll.

Let's face it. Fizzer is the developer and he has the final say. It just appears I made a poll, and you think he may use it as an excuse, but really, if you think he is biased and don't want to change, he could always find an excuse anyway.

The result is not accurate. You can vote multiple times. It should be discarded.

If you have read my reply in another thread, you know I prefer WR. But personally I'm not going to discard the result completely because the result does not seem to be what I expect. It is not a true poll if you want to ensure the result is in one's favor before you make a poll.

As I mentioned before that poll has an anti-cheat system in place. You may say it is not accurate in the sense that the poll is not 100% cheat-proof, but well what Internet poll can? Uservoice is cheatable too. Will you discard all uservoice's results too because of this? Of course not.

Let's face it. There is no such thing as 100% accurate result. Even if Fizzer makes an official one, it makes no difference. It is still cheatable. This poll is not perfect, but I think it still roughly achieves what we want, that is to know roughly about what the community prefers (SR or WR). It is not 100% accurate. That's for sure but it does not bother me too much. No result can anyway. We are living in the world of imperfect information.

And I explained previously why I think the number of fraudulent votes should be low.

Of course if someone is able to do a better poll to get a more complete picture, go for it. I encourage them to do. But it is the best piece of information we have right now.


The sample size is low

Well we get 187 voters. I couldn't say the sample size is low considered that we have about 300 players only in the most popular ladder.

i'm not trying to bash you at all. your did nothing wrong. i just highly disagree with making the results sticky and make it look like that was "what the community wants". Every time pretending to do only what the community asked for is just hypocrisy.
if fizzer just said: I want the 1vs1 ladder to be sr, it would be ok. i still would hate his decision but the real problems i got are the following Points:

1.he made a thread asking us what we want. he made the Change based on this thread (he's saying), but the big mayority wanted it to stay as it was on that thread.

2.he is completely ignoring the user voice. conclusion what he said on his stram: i could create an uservoice, if it gets enough Support he would create a poll and if it's heavily weighted towards changing back he would do it.

3.He didn't give a shit about your poll, till the results came out. he (or a mod), saw them and realized that the results fitted perfectly in what fizzer wants us to believe. the community is splitted by 50/50 on the 1vs1 ladder changes. Problem solved. He got his "proof" that he did the right Thing.

Promoting coin games doesn't necessarily require to remove wr from the ladder. he seems not to understand that. changing the autogames to no luck cycle would have the same effect. you did no mistake Inquisitor. But i'm just saying that this thread would've never become sticky if 90% of the votes were in favour of the old ladder.

Fizzer finally has a glimmer of proof that the community is in his favor

I'm actually surprised a few WR lovers are so disappointed at the result, as if they lost completely. Not really. For those who prefer WR, I don't see why you should view the result so negatively.

Take a look at the result of 1v1 ladder again. I think it is the ladder which most players are concerned about.

Facts:
WR won in 1v1 ladder.
WR won by a 6% margin. (53% - 47%)
It is 187 voters, and we have about 300 players only in the most popular ladder. (more than 50%!!)
The sampling size is not small. It is representative.

If the developer agrees to let the community decide, he should change back to WR based on this poll. The majority voted for WR. Why should SR stay when WR won? It does not make any sense.

So tell me why you view this result so negatively.

Edited 10/11/2015 15:17:00

I think inquisitor nailed it. 187 votes is around the sample size one can expect of a good unofficial poll. (compere it to Map of the Week, and you see how good it actually is.) This is the strongest indicator to the success of the poll.

But it was easy to 'troll' the poll through. I voted twice using my alt (aka a different browser.) But if the poll was properly trolled I would expect way more votes. As of now we can simply assume each side trolled the same amount xD.

Inquisitor i told you in my post above:
i could create an uservoice, if it gets enough Support he would create a poll and if it's heavily weighted towards changing back he would do it.

having a majority is by far not enough.
also i highly doubt there voted 187 Players on your poll that wasn't advertised at all. your poll is just not expressive

EDIT: again, don't take it personally. it's not your fault that the results are like this. i just can't believe there was all fair at the voting. that "anti-cheat System" is a joke.

Edited 10/11/2015 15:54:04

he made a thread asking us what we want. he made the Change based on this thread (he's saying), but the big mayority wanted it to stay as it was on that thread.

In fact he didn't really ask for any opinion before he pushed the changes to SR, cyclic and MME map.

https://www.warlight.net/Forum/103738-time-remove-luck-strategic-templates

Read carefully. At that time he simply said he wanted to remove the luck from two old "strategic" templates, and asked for community opinions. He focused solely on the luck modifier, not anything else (rounding method, move order, map change).

1v1 ladder was 0% luck long time ago, but 1v1 strategic template was still 16% luck.
2v2 ladder and 2v2 strategic template were 16% luck.
Most agreed to set the luck modifier to 0%. It is indeed a welcome change.

But players were smart and smelled "the danger" I guess XD. It turned out players discussed much more about SR/WR and move order, than the luck modifier. Unfortunately no one could predict the developer pushed MME, so no one talked about ME/MME.

I would say he made the changes based on his own vision - what he feels better for the development of his own game, rather than community opinions. I can't say this approach is absolutely wrong. It is his game after all. He could do whatever he wants. I would respect that, but it would be better if he cares more about user thoughts. They are your customers. You will get more business and money if you keep your customers happy.

Clearly there is a strong demand for a 1v1 WR ladder too. There must be a way to satisfy their needs. I don't see how it is good business sense to simply ignore them.

Edited 10/11/2015 16:20:23

1v1 ladder was 0% luck long time ago, but 1v1 strategic template was still 16% luck.

i think that's wrong. both were 0%wr.

I would say he made the changes based on his own vision - what he feels better for the development of his own game, rather than community opinions

he is doing it for pushing more Players into coin games obviously. it's not the best for the game. except you say the more Money fizzer has the better for warlight. The Thing that changes the template completely isn't MME or cycle move order. i could live with both of it. But sr makes the big Change.